hi all.
i'm a beginner at UNIX/LINUX.presently i have opensuse 10.3 installed
on my computer.i am basically a c/cpp/java programmer and soon would
be joining the IT industry.i am very enthusiastic about the shell and
would like to study unix\linux through the command line.along with
that i would also like to study operating systems in depth with hands-
on and practical approach on linux\unix OSs.for this reason i have
picked up an operating systems book by gary nutt which teaches through
examples of unix\windows and for reference i have 'the unix
programming environment' by Brian Kernighan but i'm not finding the my
OS book to be providing me with solid concrete concepts ( although it
has good examples and very good lab exercises).
Henceforth i'm an a little dilemma and as always i've turned to
usenet.it would be very appreciative of people(and nerds) out there to
help me out with the following questions :

1)how much is unix different from linux? i know linux is a simulation
of unix and i can see its source code but is it advisable to learn
from a unix book and practise on linux ? i want to learn both .
2)kindly suggest 2-3 simple,good(not at all boring),usefull and
standard books or/and sites for unix and linux.
3)kindly suggest 2-3 simple,good and conceptual books or/and sites for
operating systems that teach the subject through unix\linux approach.
thanking in anticipation. vaib.

In article
<656574ce-2733-491f-b8d6-2210e3b45150@e60g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
Vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> wrote:

> hi all.
> i'm a beginner at UNIX/LINUX.presently i have opensuse 10.3 installed
> on my computer.i am basically a c/cpp/java programmer and soon would
> be joining the IT industry.i am very enthusiastic about the shell and
> would like to study unix\linux through the command line.along with
> that i would also like to study operating systems in depth with hands-
> on and practical approach on linux\unix OSs.for this reason i have
> picked up an operating systems book by gary nutt which teaches through
> examples of unix\windows and for reference i have 'the unix
> programming environment' by Brian Kernighan but i'm not finding the my
> OS book to be providing me with solid concrete concepts ( although it
> has good examples and very good lab exercises).
> Henceforth i'm an a little dilemma and as always i've turned to
> usenet.it would be very appreciative of people(and nerds) out there to
> help me out with the following questions :
>
> 1)how much is unix different from linux? i know linux is a simulation
> of unix and i can see its source code but is it advisable to learn
> from a unix book and practise on linux ? i want to learn both .
> 2)kindly suggest 2-3 simple,good(not at all boring),usefull and
> standard books or/and sites for unix and linux.
> 3)kindly suggest 2-3 simple,good and conceptual books or/and sites for
> operating systems that teach the subject through unix\linux approach.
> thanking in anticipation. vaib.

Not to start any sort of flamewar, but UNIX came first. If you read the
Wikipedia article on Linux, I'm sure that will fill in the gaps. But
that's like studying the history of science (it was a great, easy
history elective) rather than actually _doing science in a lab_.

I came from a mini-computer environment (VMS) in the mid 90's to
Solaris. Different vendors do things differently, but most UNIX systems
are pretty much the same. The basic sysadmin tasks don't change, just
how they're done.

If you don't have any background in running large collections of
machines (mostly, that's the job in IT), you should start there. THE
PRACTICE OF SYSTEM AND NETWORK ADMINISTRATION by Limoncelli and Hogan is
a good, non-specific discussion of the issues. Task specific books
depend on the vendor. I like O'Reilly's books (YMMV):

http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/esa3/index.html

Unfortunately, the 2nd edition of Nemeth's UNIX SYSTEM ADMINISTRATION
HANDBOOK isn't out until April, but the Linux version is available:

http://www.amazon.com/Unix-System-Ad...emeth/dp/01314
80057
http://www.amazon.com/Linux-Administ...eth/dp/0131480
049

As to practicing on Linux and trying to get a job in a vendor-specific
shop, that will be a _lot_ harder. I'd think most shops look for an
candidate with training on the equipment they have. Some really
cheap-ass shops using Linux and advertising on Craigslist might talk to
you, but not a big shop running a mix of Solaris, HP/UX, or IBM's
virtualized Linux on mainframes.

You can start by installing Solaris on a system (cheap SPARCs can be had
on eBay), familiarizing yourself with the hardware, configuring the
disks, installing software (vendor, freeware, and GNU).

Good luck.

--
DeeDee, don't press that button! DeeDee! NO! Dee...

Michael Vilain wrote:
> In article
> <656574ce-2733-491f-b8d6-2210e3b45150@e60g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
> Vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>hi all.
>>i'm a beginner at UNIX/LINUX.presently i have opensuse 10.3 installed
>>on my computer.i am basically a c/cpp/java programmer and soon would
>>be joining the IT industry.i am very enthusiastic about the shell and
>>would like to study unix\linux through the command line.along with
>>that i would also like to study operating systems in depth with hands-
>>on and practical approach on linux\unix OSs.for this reason i have
>>picked up an operating systems book by gary nutt which teaches through
>>examples of unix\windows and for reference i have 'the unix
>>programming environment' by Brian Kernighan but i'm not finding the my
>>OS book to be providing me with solid concrete concepts ( although it
>>has good examples and very good lab exercises).
>>Henceforth i'm an a little dilemma and as always i've turned to
>>usenet.it would be very appreciative of people(and nerds) out there to
>>help me out with the following questions :
>>
>>1)how much is unix different from linux? i know linux is a simulation
>>of unix and i can see its source code but is it advisable to learn
>>from a unix book and practise on linux ? i want to learn both .
>>2)kindly suggest 2-3 simple,good(not at all boring),usefull and
>>standard books or/and sites for unix and linux.
>>3)kindly suggest 2-3 simple,good and conceptual books or/and sites for
>>operating systems that teach the subject through unix\linux approach.
>> thanking in anticipation. vaib.
>
>
> Not to start any sort of flamewar, but UNIX came first. If you read the
> Wikipedia article on Linux, I'm sure that will fill in the gaps. But
> that's like studying the history of science (it was a great, easy
> history elective) rather than actually _doing science in a lab_.
>
> I came from a mini-computer environment (VMS) in the mid 90's to
> Solaris. Different vendors do things differently, but most UNIX systems
> are pretty much the same. The basic sysadmin tasks don't change, just
> how they're done.
>
> If you don't have any background in running large collections of
> machines (mostly, that's the job in IT), you should start there. THE
> PRACTICE OF SYSTEM AND NETWORK ADMINISTRATION by Limoncelli and Hogan is
> a good, non-specific discussion of the issues. Task specific books
> depend on the vendor. I like O'Reilly's books (YMMV):
>
> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/esa3/index.html
>
> Unfortunately, the 2nd edition of Nemeth's UNIX SYSTEM ADMINISTRATION
> HANDBOOK isn't out until April, but the Linux version is available:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Unix-System-Ad...emeth/dp/01314
> 80057
> http://www.amazon.com/Linux-Administ...eth/dp/0131480
> 049
>
> As to practicing on Linux and trying to get a job in a vendor-specific
> shop, that will be a _lot_ harder. I'd think most shops look for an
> candidate with training on the equipment they have. Some really
> cheap-ass shops using Linux and advertising on Craigslist might talk to
> you, but not a big shop running a mix of Solaris, HP/UX, or IBM's
> virtualized Linux on mainframes.
>
> You can start by installing Solaris on a system (cheap SPARCs can be had
> on eBay), familiarizing yourself with the hardware, configuring the
> disks, installing software (vendor, freeware, and GNU).
>
> Good luck.
>

You can also install Solaris on a cheap PC!

"Operating Systems: Design and Implementation" by Andrew S. Tannenbaum
is a good text on the subject of operating systems in general.

I'd disagree on the subject of knowing the specific hardware! What most
IT people need to know about hardware is easily learned "on the job" as
long as you will not be designing or repairing hardware. You will be
exected to do basic troubleshooting such as determining whether a
problem is due to hardware or software. You will need to be able to
identify the power switch and possibly you may need to know how to open
the case and install or remove PCI cards or memory. Most larger shops
pay for a service contract which means that somebody from Sun or another
vendor comes on site to troubleshoot and repair the hardware. Tasks
like installing a modem or a printer are things you would be expected to
be able to do.

You will also need to know enough about networks and networking hardware
to be able to connect a machine to the network and to troubleshoot
simple network problems. Most shops have a network specialist to do the
difficult stuff.

Michael Vilain wrote:

[snip]

>
> Unfortunately, the 2nd edition of Nemeth's UNIX SYSTEM ADMINISTRATION
> HANDBOOK isn't out until April, but the Linux version is available:
>

Wake up Rip Van Winkle!!! I've got the 3rd edition on my shelf now w/ a
2001 copyright date :-)

On a serious note to the OP, get some of the removable disk drive kits
so you can easily swap hard drives w/o opening up the system. This will
let you try a large number of variants w/o taking out your main system.
It's also *much* less trouble than multibooting. I've got ~ 20 hard
drives in caddies with sockets in all my systems except the Ultra 20
(superfluous) and the laptops.

The first 3 systems will drive you mad. After that it's not a big deal
and the ability to roll w/ the punches from a new OS or release is a
valuable job skill.

As a suggestion do the following:

at least 3 Linux variants (e.g. Fedora, Ubuntu, Debian)

the 3 BSD variants (FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD)

Solaris 10 & Solaris Express

For extra credit, pick up old AIX & HP-UX boxes and mess around w/ them
some.

This will give you a good feel for the Unix model and a strong grasp for
the various dialects.

If you're quiet and unpretentious in your manner, you'll get a *lot* of
favorable attention from the senior admins when they find out you've
done this. The thing that really drives them crazy is the "expert" who
thinks every computer looks just like the "expert's".

Above all,

Have Fun!
Reg

Who's working on getting his new laptop to multiboot Solaris, Linux &
Vista even though he's "gotten right with God" and only uses Solaris if
given a choice ;-)

In article <47C1A6C7.3020907@comcast.net>,
"Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote:

> Michael Vilain wrote:
> > In article
> > <656574ce-2733-491f-b8d6-2210e3b45150@e60g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
> > Vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>hi all.
> >>i'm a beginner at UNIX/LINUX.presently i have opensuse 10.3 installed
> >>on my computer.i am basically a c/cpp/java programmer and soon would
> >>be joining the IT industry.i am very enthusiastic about the shell and
> >>would like to study unix\linux through the command line.along with
> >>that i would also like to study operating systems in depth with hands-
> >>on and practical approach on linux\unix OSs.for this reason i have
> >>picked up an operating systems book by gary nutt which teaches through
> >>examples of unix\windows and for reference i have 'the unix
> >>programming environment' by Brian Kernighan but i'm not finding the my
> >>OS book to be providing me with solid concrete concepts ( although it
> >>has good examples and very good lab exercises).
> >>Henceforth i'm an a little dilemma and as always i've turned to
> >>usenet.it would be very appreciative of people(and nerds) out there to
> >>help me out with the following questions :
> >>
> >>1)how much is unix different from linux? i know linux is a simulation
> >>of unix and i can see its source code but is it advisable to learn
> >>from a unix book and practise on linux ? i want to learn both .
> >>2)kindly suggest 2-3 simple,good(not at all boring),usefull and
> >>standard books or/and sites for unix and linux.
> >>3)kindly suggest 2-3 simple,good and conceptual books or/and sites for
> >>operating systems that teach the subject through unix\linux approach.
> >> thanking in anticipation. vaib.
> >
> >
> > Not to start any sort of flamewar, but UNIX came first. If you read the
> > Wikipedia article on Linux, I'm sure that will fill in the gaps. But
> > that's like studying the history of science (it was a great, easy
> > history elective) rather than actually _doing science in a lab_.
> >
> > I came from a mini-computer environment (VMS) in the mid 90's to
> > Solaris. Different vendors do things differently, but most UNIX systems
> > are pretty much the same. The basic sysadmin tasks don't change, just
> > how they're done.
> >
> > If you don't have any background in running large collections of
> > machines (mostly, that's the job in IT), you should start there. THE
> > PRACTICE OF SYSTEM AND NETWORK ADMINISTRATION by Limoncelli and Hogan is
> > a good, non-specific discussion of the issues. Task specific books
> > depend on the vendor. I like O'Reilly's books (YMMV):
> >
> > http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/esa3/index.html
> >
> > Unfortunately, the 2nd edition of Nemeth's UNIX SYSTEM ADMINISTRATION
> > HANDBOOK isn't out until April, but the Linux version is available:
> >
> > http://www.amazon.com/Unix-System-Ad...emeth/dp/01314
> > 80057
> > http://www.amazon.com/Linux-Administ...eth/dp/0131480
> > 049
> >
> > As to practicing on Linux and trying to get a job in a vendor-specific
> > shop, that will be a _lot_ harder. I'd think most shops look for an
> > candidate with training on the equipment they have. Some really
> > cheap-ass shops using Linux and advertising on Craigslist might talk to
> > you, but not a big shop running a mix of Solaris, HP/UX, or IBM's
> > virtualized Linux on mainframes.
> >
> > You can start by installing Solaris on a system (cheap SPARCs can be had
> > on eBay), familiarizing yourself with the hardware, configuring the
> > disks, installing software (vendor, freeware, and GNU).
> >
> > Good luck.
> >
>
> You can also install Solaris on a cheap PC!
>
> "Operating Systems: Design and Implementation" by Andrew S. Tannenbaum
> is a good text on the subject of operating systems in general.
>
> I'd disagree on the subject of knowing the specific hardware! What most
> IT people need to know about hardware is easily learned "on the job" as
> long as you will not be designing or repairing hardware. You will be
> exected to do basic troubleshooting such as determining whether a
> problem is due to hardware or software. You will need to be able to
> identify the power switch and possibly you may need to know how to open
> the case and install or remove PCI cards or memory. Most larger shops
> pay for a service contract which means that somebody from Sun or another
> vendor comes on site to troubleshoot and repair the hardware. Tasks
> like installing a modem or a printer are things you would be expected to
> be able to do.
>
> You will also need to know enough about networks and networking hardware
> to be able to connect a machine to the network and to troubleshoot
> simple network problems. Most shops have a network specialist to do the
> difficult stuff.

Has the job market changed? It's been a while since I was out there,
but back in 2000 or so, the people I was talking to wanted to know if I
had specific experience on the stuff they had in house. I didn't
mention my prior experience with stuff they didn't have except on my
resume. Most of the time, they didn't ask. Then again, I wasn't
interviewing for an entry level position, just a journeyman
meat-and-potatoes sysadmin.

Most of the big shops didn't think Linux was worth implementing. One
site would fire you immediately if you ran it on your desktop. That's
probably changed.

--
DeeDee, don't press that button! DeeDee! NO! Dee...

Michael Vilain wrote:
> In article <47C1A6C7.3020907@comcast.net>,
> "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Michael Vilain wrote:
>>
>>>In article
>>><656574ce-2733-491f-b8d6-2210e3b45150@e60g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
>>> Vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>hi all.
>>>>i'm a beginner at UNIX/LINUX.presently i have opensuse 10.3 installed
>>>>on my computer.i am basically a c/cpp/java programmer and soon would
>>>>be joining the IT industry.i am very enthusiastic about the shell and
>>>>would like to study unix\linux through the command line.along with
>>>>that i would also like to study operating systems in depth with hands-
>>>>on and practical approach on linux\unix OSs.for this reason i have
>>>>picked up an operating systems book by gary nutt which teaches through
>>>>examples of unix\windows and for reference i have 'the unix
>>>>programming environment' by Brian Kernighan but i'm not finding the my
>>>>OS book to be providing me with solid concrete concepts ( although it
>>>>has good examples and very good lab exercises).
>>>>Henceforth i'm an a little dilemma and as always i've turned to
>>>>usenet.it would be very appreciative of people(and nerds) out there to
>>>>help me out with the following questions :
>>>>
>>>>1)how much is unix different from linux? i know linux is a simulation
>>>>of unix and i can see its source code but is it advisable to learn
>>>
>>>>from a unix book and practise on linux ? i want to learn both .
>>>
>>>>2)kindly suggest 2-3 simple,good(not at all boring),usefull and
>>>>standard books or/and sites for unix and linux.
>>>>3)kindly suggest 2-3 simple,good and conceptual books or/and sites for
>>>>operating systems that teach the subject through unix\linux approach.
>>>> thanking in anticipation. vaib.
>>>
>>>
>>>Not to start any sort of flamewar, but UNIX came first. If you read the
>>>Wikipedia article on Linux, I'm sure that will fill in the gaps. But
>>>that's like studying the history of science (it was a great, easy
>>>history elective) rather than actually _doing science in a lab_.
>>>
>>>I came from a mini-computer environment (VMS) in the mid 90's to
>>>Solaris. Different vendors do things differently, but most UNIX systems
>>>are pretty much the same. The basic sysadmin tasks don't change, just
>>>how they're done.
>>>
>>>If you don't have any background in running large collections of
>>>machines (mostly, that's the job in IT), you should start there. THE
>>>PRACTICE OF SYSTEM AND NETWORK ADMINISTRATION by Limoncelli and Hogan is
>>>a good, non-specific discussion of the issues. Task specific books
>>>depend on the vendor. I like O'Reilly's books (YMMV):
>>>
>>>http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/esa3/index.html
>>>
>>>Unfortunately, the 2nd edition of Nemeth's UNIX SYSTEM ADMINISTRATION
>>>HANDBOOK isn't out until April, but the Linux version is available:
>>>
>>>http://www.amazon.com/Unix-System-Ad...emeth/dp/01314
>>>80057
>>>http://www.amazon.com/Linux-Administ...eth/dp/0131480
>>>049
>>>
>>>As to practicing on Linux and trying to get a job in a vendor-specific
>>>shop, that will be a _lot_ harder. I'd think most shops look for an
>>>candidate with training on the equipment they have. Some really
>>>cheap-ass shops using Linux and advertising on Craigslist might talk to
>>>you, but not a big shop running a mix of Solaris, HP/UX, or IBM's
>>>virtualized Linux on mainframes.
>>>
>>>You can start by installing Solaris on a system (cheap SPARCs can be had
>>>on eBay), familiarizing yourself with the hardware, configuring the
>>>disks, installing software (vendor, freeware, and GNU).
>>>
>>>Good luck.
>>>
>>
>>You can also install Solaris on a cheap PC!
>>
>>"Operating Systems: Design and Implementation" by Andrew S. Tannenbaum
>>is a good text on the subject of operating systems in general.
>>
>>I'd disagree on the subject of knowing the specific hardware! What most
>>IT people need to know about hardware is easily learned "on the job" as
>>long as you will not be designing or repairing hardware. You will be
>>exected to do basic troubleshooting such as determining whether a
>>problem is due to hardware or software. You will need to be able to
>>identify the power switch and possibly you may need to know how to open
>>the case and install or remove PCI cards or memory. Most larger shops
>>pay for a service contract which means that somebody from Sun or another
>>vendor comes on site to troubleshoot and repair the hardware. Tasks
>>like installing a modem or a printer are things you would be expected to
>>be able to do.
>>
>>You will also need to know enough about networks and networking hardware
>>to be able to connect a machine to the network and to troubleshoot
>>simple network problems. Most shops have a network specialist to do the
>>difficult stuff.
>
>
> Has the job market changed? It's been a while since I was out there,
> but back in 2000 or so, the people I was talking to wanted to know if I
> had specific experience on the stuff they had in house. I didn't
> mention my prior experience with stuff they didn't have except on my
> resume. Most of the time, they didn't ask. Then again, I wasn't
> interviewing for an entry level position, just a journeyman
> meat-and-potatoes sysadmin.
>
<snip>

I'm sure the job market has changed and is still changing!

At my last job I had, when I started, a VAX 8250, two VAX 6000 series
boxes,an Alphaserver 2000 and an Alphaserver 2100 and a pair of
Alphaserver 4100s all of which I had seen before, elsewhere.
Subsequently we purchased ES40s to replace the 4100s which then became
test/developement/training systems. RA and RZ series disks, all of
which I was familiar with. HSZ50 controllers which I was not familiar
with but they were similar to HSZ40s which I was familiar with. HSC
controllers that I was familiar with.

Before that, at McGraw-Hill in Hightstown, I had VAX 7000s which were
new to me, MicroVAX 4000s again new to me, Alpha Server 4100 new to me,
MicroVAX 3100 (semi familiar as they were similar to VAXStation 3100)
VAX 6000 series with which I was familiar. The hardware made very
little difference to my job as a System Manager. They all ran VMS, some
ran RDB. I was expected to shut them down or start them up on request.
I had a checklist for each one which I followed when shutting down or
starting up. The applications had to be shut down cleanly if possible
and in the proper order. Same on startup. Boot and then make sure that
everything started up properly.

I had RA series disks (familiar) HSC70/90 new to me but similar to HSC50
which I had used before. RZ series disks (familar) HSZ40 controllers
(new to me) etc, etc. I learned as I went.

I was seldom required, or allowed, to do much more than shut things down
or start them up again. Our DEC service contract was worth something
like $700,000/year. It included the Hightstown data center and about
100 field offices!

Over the years I developed a DCL procedure called GET_CONFIG.COM which
would report the hardware and software configuration of a system or
cluster. DEC Field Service later on showed up with something similar
but written in Macro. Mine would report the model, the number of CPUs,
the amount of memory installed, listed all the disk drives showing the
model and amount of free space on each. If the disk was a pseudo device
it detected and reported that and listed the devicenames of the shadow
members. It listed the tape drives. It reported the software licenses
available, eetc, etc.

The original was something I developed when a client I was providing
telephone support for could not tell me what his hardware configuration
was. I wrote the first version, tested it on one of my machines, sent
it to the client with instructions to run it and send me the output.

Bottom line is that SOME hardware knowledge is required but generally
not to the level required to troubleshoot and repair. You do have to
know enough to be reasonably certain that a problem is due to hardware
rather than software, or vice versa. And you generally do need to know
exactly what you have and what it's being used for.

In article <47C23E29.2070800@comcast.net>,
"Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote:

> Michael Vilain wrote:
> > In article <47C1A6C7.3020907@comcast.net>,
> > "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Michael Vilain wrote:
> >>
> >>>In article
> >>><656574ce-2733-491f-b8d6-2210e3b45150@e60g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
> >>> Vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>hi all.
> >>>>i'm a beginner at UNIX/LINUX.presently i have opensuse 10.3 installed
> >>>>on my computer.i am basically a c/cpp/java programmer and soon would
> >>>>be joining the IT industry.i am very enthusiastic about the shell and
> >>>>would like to study unix\linux through the command line.along with
> >>>>that i would also like to study operating systems in depth with hands-
> >>>>on and practical approach on linux\unix OSs.for this reason i have
> >>>>picked up an operating systems book by gary nutt which teaches through
> >>>>examples of unix\windows and for reference i have 'the unix
> >>>>programming environment' by Brian Kernighan but i'm not finding the my
> >>>>OS book to be providing me with solid concrete concepts ( although it
> >>>>has good examples and very good lab exercises).
> >>>>Henceforth i'm an a little dilemma and as always i've turned to
> >>>>usenet.it would be very appreciative of people(and nerds) out there to
> >>>>help me out with the following questions :
> >>>>
> >>>>1)how much is unix different from linux? i know linux is a simulation
> >>>>of unix and i can see its source code but is it advisable to learn
> >>>
> >>>>from a unix book and practise on linux ? i want to learn both .
> >>>
> >>>>2)kindly suggest 2-3 simple,good(not at all boring),usefull and
> >>>>standard books or/and sites for unix and linux.
> >>>>3)kindly suggest 2-3 simple,good and conceptual books or/and sites for
> >>>>operating systems that teach the subject through unix\linux approach.
> >>>> thanking in anticipation. vaib.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Not to start any sort of flamewar, but UNIX came first. If you read the
> >>>Wikipedia article on Linux, I'm sure that will fill in the gaps. But
> >>>that's like studying the history of science (it was a great, easy
> >>>history elective) rather than actually _doing science in a lab_.
> >>>
> >>>I came from a mini-computer environment (VMS) in the mid 90's to
> >>>Solaris. Different vendors do things differently, but most UNIX systems
> >>>are pretty much the same. The basic sysadmin tasks don't change, just
> >>>how they're done.
> >>>
> >>>If you don't have any background in running large collections of
> >>>machines (mostly, that's the job in IT), you should start there. THE
> >>>PRACTICE OF SYSTEM AND NETWORK ADMINISTRATION by Limoncelli and Hogan is
> >>>a good, non-specific discussion of the issues. Task specific books
> >>>depend on the vendor. I like O'Reilly's books (YMMV):
> >>>
> >>>http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/esa3/index.html
> >>>
> >>>Unfortunately, the 2nd edition of Nemeth's UNIX SYSTEM ADMINISTRATION
> >>>HANDBOOK isn't out until April, but the Linux version is available:
> >>>
> >>>http://www.amazon.com/Unix-System-Ad...emeth/dp/01314
> >>>80057
> >>>http://www.amazon.com/Linux-Administ...eth/dp/0131480
> >>>049
> >>>
> >>>As to practicing on Linux and trying to get a job in a vendor-specific
> >>>shop, that will be a _lot_ harder. I'd think most shops look for an
> >>>candidate with training on the equipment they have. Some really
> >>>cheap-ass shops using Linux and advertising on Craigslist might talk to
> >>>you, but not a big shop running a mix of Solaris, HP/UX, or IBM's
> >>>virtualized Linux on mainframes.
> >>>
> >>>You can start by installing Solaris on a system (cheap SPARCs can be had
> >>>on eBay), familiarizing yourself with the hardware, configuring the
> >>>disks, installing software (vendor, freeware, and GNU).
> >>>
> >>>Good luck.
> >>>
> >>
> >>You can also install Solaris on a cheap PC!
> >>
> >>"Operating Systems: Design and Implementation" by Andrew S. Tannenbaum
> >>is a good text on the subject of operating systems in general.
> >>
> >>I'd disagree on the subject of knowing the specific hardware! What most
> >>IT people need to know about hardware is easily learned "on the job" as
> >>long as you will not be designing or repairing hardware. You will be
> >>exected to do basic troubleshooting such as determining whether a
> >>problem is due to hardware or software. You will need to be able to
> >>identify the power switch and possibly you may need to know how to open
> >>the case and install or remove PCI cards or memory. Most larger shops
> >>pay for a service contract which means that somebody from Sun or another
> >>vendor comes on site to troubleshoot and repair the hardware. Tasks
> >>like installing a modem or a printer are things you would be expected to
> >>be able to do.
> >>
> >>You will also need to know enough about networks and networking hardware
> >>to be able to connect a machine to the network and to troubleshoot
> >>simple network problems. Most shops have a network specialist to do the
> >>difficult stuff.
> >
> >
> > Has the job market changed? It's been a while since I was out there,
> > but back in 2000 or so, the people I was talking to wanted to know if I
> > had specific experience on the stuff they had in house. I didn't
> > mention my prior experience with stuff they didn't have except on my
> > resume. Most of the time, they didn't ask. Then again, I wasn't
> > interviewing for an entry level position, just a journeyman
> > meat-and-potatoes sysadmin.
> >
> <snip>
>
> I'm sure the job market has changed and is still changing!
>
> At my last job I had, when I started, a VAX 8250, two VAX 6000 series
> boxes,an Alphaserver 2000 and an Alphaserver 2100 and a pair of
> Alphaserver 4100s all of which I had seen before, elsewhere.
> Subsequently we purchased ES40s to replace the 4100s which then became
> test/developement/training systems. RA and RZ series disks, all of
> which I was familiar with. HSZ50 controllers which I was not familiar
> with but they were similar to HSZ40s which I was familiar with. HSC
> controllers that I was familiar with.
>
> Before that, at McGraw-Hill in Hightstown, I had VAX 7000s which were
> new to me, MicroVAX 4000s again new to me, Alpha Server 4100 new to me,
> MicroVAX 3100 (semi familiar as they were similar to VAXStation 3100)
> VAX 6000 series with which I was familiar. The hardware made very
> little difference to my job as a System Manager. They all ran VMS, some
> ran RDB. I was expected to shut them down or start them up on request.
> I had a checklist for each one which I followed when shutting down or
> starting up. The applications had to be shut down cleanly if possible
> and in the proper order. Same on startup. Boot and then make sure that
> everything started up properly.
>
> I had RA series disks (familiar) HSC70/90 new to me but similar to HSC50
> which I had used before. RZ series disks (familar) HSZ40 controllers
> (new to me) etc, etc. I learned as I went.
>
> I was seldom required, or allowed, to do much more than shut things down
> or start them up again. Our DEC service contract was worth something
> like $700,000/year. It included the Hightstown data center and about
> 100 field offices!
>
> Over the years I developed a DCL procedure called GET_CONFIG.COM which
> would report the hardware and software configuration of a system or
> cluster. DEC Field Service later on showed up with something similar
> but written in Macro. Mine would report the model, the number of CPUs,
> the amount of memory installed, listed all the disk drives showing the
> model and amount of free space on each. If the disk was a pseudo device
> it detected and reported that and listed the devicenames of the shadow
> members. It listed the tape drives. It reported the software licenses
> available, eetc, etc.
>
> The original was something I developed when a client I was providing
> telephone support for could not tell me what his hardware configuration
> was. I wrote the first version, tested it on one of my machines, sent
> it to the client with instructions to run it and send me the output.
>
> Bottom line is that SOME hardware knowledge is required but generally
> not to the level required to troubleshoot and repair. You do have to
> know enough to be reasonably certain that a problem is due to hardware
> rather than software, or vice versa. And you generally do need to know
> exactly what you have and what it's being used for.

When I left DEC in 1991 and had to deal with customers who were "on a
budget", the UNIX environment in general was very different. Rather
than call the FS rep to deal with a problem, _I_ was expected to open a
box and take a first pass look at it before the site called in the
3rd-party repair person. It wasn't until I worked at a big datacenter
when I was encouraged to call whatever service person was needed--the
boss said "We're paying for it, so why not use it?"

Smaller shops that have older equipment may not have SUN's service
unless they have something they can't afford to beak. Or they're really
stupid and expect the sysadmin to fix it. That's not unheard of.

If the OP is going to deal with the low end of the market (cheap PCs
running LINUX or even Solaris), I think he's going to have be able to
figure out how to replace memory, I/O cards and disk himself. And
configure the system on how to use those cards. And figure out what
cards to order that will work in all the systems. And then figure out
how to repartition the disk for the stuff that was on it and restore the
data from backups.

Remember, this guy has no prior experience in IT. So all the sysadmin
tasks are new to him. Print queues? How do I setup a printer to print
landscape and portrait? How do I setup batch jobs on all the systems?
Accounting wants to do a special year-end closing and doesn't want the
full backups to run this weekend until they're done. How do I turn them
off?

The stuff we take for granted coming from a larger environment he
probably has never seen. I doubt it will be his first job or even
interview. I think he's better served by learning basic UNIX concepts
and task oriented specifics, then learning specifics for various
platforms. The problem is that many sites "do their own thing", so
specific training is usually "on the job".

--
DeeDee, don't press that button! DeeDee! NO! Dee...

On Feb 25, 1:32 am, Reginald Beardsley <pulask...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Michael Vilain wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>
>
> > Unfortunately, the 2nd edition of Nemeth's UNIX SYSTEM ADMINISTRATION
> > HANDBOOK isn't out until April, but the Linux version is available:
>
> Wake up Rip Van Winkle!!! I've got the 3rd edition on my shelf now w/ a
> 2001 copyright date :-)
>
> On a serious note to the OP, get some of the removable disk drive kits
> so you can easily swap hard drives w/o opening up the system. This will
> let you try a large number of variants w/o taking out your main system.
> It's also *much* less trouble than multibooting. I've got ~ 20 hard
> drives in caddies with sockets in all my systems except the Ultra 20
> (superfluous) and the laptops.
>
> The first 3 systems will drive you mad. After that it's not a big deal
> and the ability to roll w/ the punches from a new OS or release is a
> valuable job skill.
>
> As a suggestion do the following:
>
> at least 3 Linux variants (e.g. Fedora, Ubuntu, Debian)
>
> the 3 BSD variants (FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD)
>
> Solaris 10 & Solaris Express
>
> For extra credit, pick up old AIX & HP-UX boxes and mess around w/ them
> some.
>
> This will give you a good feel for the Unix model and a strong grasp for
> the various dialects.
>
> If you're quiet and unpretentious in your manner, you'll get a *lot* of
> favorable attention from the senior admins when they find out you've
> done this. The thing that really drives them crazy is the "expert" who
> thinks every computer looks just like the "expert's".
>
> Above all,
>
> Have Fun!
> Reg
>
> Who's working on getting his new laptop to multiboot Solaris, Linux &
> Vista even though he's "gotten right with God" and only uses Solaris if
> given a choice ;-)

thanx Reg i'll remember to have fun.its important.