Hey,
I'm a big Unix fan/ User, just as much as alot of you other guys. I
do have a windows machine as well. I work with both Windows and
different Flavors of *Nix on a regular basis. I honeslty like both for
diferent reasons.
I like Unix for its abundance of chocices, its flexibility, its power
( when combined with a knowledgeable user).
I like windows for its support from vendors ( software and hardware),
its ease of use.


With that having been said, Windows isnt all bad, so why is there to
much animosity??? Please enlighten me.



Giovanni

gev_d wrote:

> With that having been said, Windows isnt all bad, so why is there to
> much animosity??? Please enlighten me.

I would start with this
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/current.aspx

On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:36:00 -0800, gev_d wrote:

> With that having been said, Windows isnt all bad, so why is there to
> much animosity??? Please enlighten me.

Start here:

http://www.vanwensveen.nl/rants/microsoft/IhateMS.html

You know.... ever since I started as a Unix Admin I didn't know what
people were complaining about when they bad mouthed MS. I mean, I had
a 386, DOS 6.22 and ran Windows for Worgroups. I worked in a shop that
processed images on NT and it all seamed OK. I just didn't understand
the complaints.

Then I got a PC running 2000.

RH 7 was my OS of choice, and I found a really nice machine that came
with Window's 2000. My first impression was, "where is the software?".
There really wasn't much to it. It seamed like one spent money just so
they could spend more money on software. There wasn't even a word
processor!

Then there are the reboots. I was familiar with the Blue Screen of
Death at work. But that was work. I thought our reboots were
application specific... and how wrong I was. I jokingly named my PC
"BSOD". But it lived up to it's name. The end result was, I could not
rely on the thing for a serious overnight job.

Each time I would look to see what was causing the reboot, there
wouldn't be anything in the (what little) logs I had. I have to say
that 30% of my Unix career has been maintaining logs. And the fact that
I had little if no logs really irked me.

Then there was the GUI issue. For some sick, twisted reason, I really
love CLI and shells. And the incessant, point/click got on my nerves.
ESPECIALLY, when it takes 10 seconds to create a new desktop folder
with a right click!!!!!! There were more than a dozen times I thought,
"If I had a shell I could do this easier and faster". For basic file
management, it was slow. And I got tired of point > then > clicking >
on the tabs > to > get > anything > done. OK?

Then the virii came out of the wodwork. My neighbors and friends (who
knew nothing about computers) would have continued crashes because of
worms and malfeasance. And when I told them they needed to get a
firewall and AV scanner I was taken back by the price. The tools that I
had, at my disposal, which I used to protect my Linux box, were part of
the OS . And they worked effectively. (That isn't to say you won't get
hacked if you run *Nix; it happened to my other Unix admins, on
numerous occasions. But it is to say, it took someone to actively probe
and find a way in... other than having you open/view an email or just
visit a web site.)

And if it wasn't bad enough to be worried about Security from others,
there were the reports that MS had those various embedded back doors
(netsacpecantcode, etc.). And there was the one guy who worked out a
solution to track all MS email only to find out it was already being
done by MS!

The final straw for me was MS Money. It was the first piece of MS
software I ever purchased (something that didn't come with the
hardware). I bought it, and I have that little freaking hologram, piece
of paper in my desk. And yet, I still get these nagging pop-ups...
"upgrade to Money 2006!" I paid not to have nagware!!!!!!

All in all I think it's the end-user preference. And Linux had a lot
more to offer for the money and for the products. Windows is good for
playing games... and I really liked using it to stream audio (the media
player's visualizations were cool). But if I'm going to run a farm of
servers, or if I need to run a desktop for work... I'd prefer Linux any
day of the year. --Mediis

Hey,
Mediis, that was a very thoughtful answer. I appreciate the input.
I am always arguing at work with a Windows admin who Maintains a
Windows Domain with AD. I on the other hand work with RH3 Enterprise &
Solaris 6-9.
I think alot of ppl like to argue in favor of windows for its
Intuitive interface. I too have grown fond of comand line.
As a side note , i see MS is introducing a unix like command shell
that is in beta phase (Monad).
Just following up on my original post.


Giovanni

On 16 Feb 2006 19:40:06 -0800
"gev_d" <gdelvalle@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think alot of ppl like to argue in favor of windows for its
> Intuitive interface.

Actually, it's not intuitive at all. What happens is that people first
get into contact with Windows, assimilate it (more or less) and then
start measuring everything against that. At the same time, Microsoft
has done a good job of making tools (such as Outlook, Exchange, Word,
etc) that only work well when used together.

For example, you can copy a table out of Word and paste it in Outlook,
and it will look great. The problem is that unless the recipient also
has Outlook, they will not even know the originator sent a table (it'll
be a meaningless jumble of words). Similarly, Outlook maintains neither
the "References:" nor the "In-Reply-To:" headers, so mailers that use
this (standard) information to provide a threaded view cannot do so
when one of the parties is using Outlook. Instead, it uses the MS-TNEF
attachment, X-MS-TNEF-Correlator, Thread-Index etc. As a result,
non-Windows users are put under pressure to switch to Windows.

AD is another example where Microsoft has made it difficult for
non-Windows OSes and Windows (and then not even all Windows versions,
because they not only want to make it difficult to use other OSes, they
also want to force users of previous versions to update) to work
together. They aren't competing on technical excellence (which would be
good), but manipulate their software for marketing purposes.

Basically, Microsoft are cheaters, and it's this attitude that provokes
hatred (humans are very good at recognising cheaters).

--
Stefaan
--
As complexity rises, precise statements lose meaning,
and meaningful statements lose precision. -- Lotfi Zadeh

mediis and Stefan got it all
I would just like to add: REINSTALLS
I fu*king hate the fact thad reinstall is A MUST after some time. Almost as
a natural thing. Windows Fenix Ed.
I've installed Slackware only once.
After that, I've installed Solaris Express only once.
I've (re)installed Win98/Win2K/WinXP countless times.

gev_d wrote:
> Hey,
> Mediis, that was a very thoughtful answer. I appreciate the input.
> I am always arguing at work with a Windows admin who Maintains a
> Windows Domain with AD. I on the other hand work with RH3 Enterprise &
> Solaris 6-9.
> I think alot of ppl like to argue in favor of windows for its
> Intuitive interface. I too have grown fond of comand line.
> As a side note , i see MS is introducing a unix like command shell
> that is in beta phase (Monad).
> Just following up on my original post.
>
>
> Giovanni
>
Perhaps its just my nature, but I can't respect anything with a security
record like Windows'. Add to that exploitive business practices by
Microsoft and instilled in Windows and then it may be a little easier to
understand.

Or just try using Windows. When you get data loss resulting from system
corruption on 100% perfect hardware you get get irate real quick.

On 16 Feb 2006 12:36:00 -0800, "gev_d" <gdelvalle@gmail.com> wrote:

>With that having been said, Windows isnt all bad, so why is there to
>much animosity??? Please enlighten me.

Their business practices. They're bullies. Most bullies get that
way due to their own feelings of inferiority.

Microsoft acts like they are terrified of letting their technology
stand on its own merits.

Just my $.02,

Bill
--
William D Waddington
william.waddington@beezmo.com
"Even bugs...are unexpected signposts on
the long road of creativity..." - Ken Burtch

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006, shoki wrote:

> mediis and Stefan got it all
> I would just like to add: REINSTALLS
> I fu*king hate the fact thad reinstall is A MUST after some time. Almost as
> a natural thing. Windows Fenix Ed.
> I've installed Slackware only once.
> After that, I've installed Solaris Express only once.
> I've (re)installed Win98/Win2K/WinXP countless times.

WHen I was a kid, the three Rs were Reading, 'Riting, and 'Rithmatic.
Micorsoft has redefined them to be Reboot, Reinstall, and Reformat.

--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, OpenSolaris CAB member

President,
Rite Online Inc.

Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich