Man, I hope IBM is following this thread ...





-----Original Message-----

From: owner-informix-list@iiug.org [mailtowner-informix-list@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Obnoxio The Clown

Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 6:58 PM

To: informix-list@iiug.org

Subject: Re: These crazy emails about IDS to DB2 conversion



Malc P wrote:



> Malcolm W more or less hit the nail on the head.



If he did, then why are you asking questions about IBM's IDS strategy? )



> My input to this is, I'm an Informix DBA and I'd rather not have to

> learn how to DBA another vendor's offering. This statement may or may

> not be rational but hey, that's me, and I'm old.

> What I guess we all want to know is whether the impending merge of

> technology (as I recall, the working name quoted at the Infobahn was

> 'DBNew' but what's in a name?) will:

>

> A) retain the capabilities and performance of IDS

> B) be an upgrade which will be no more difficult than a version

> upgrade, i.e. take old server down; install new server; start new

> server and allow conversion to occur; go online. 1.5 hours, max.

> C) Retain the administration capabilities of IDS

> D) run our 4GL/SQL/ESQLC etc without mods.

>

> If any of these aren't met, will the transition at best be no more

> than a weekend's work to iron out?



Not if the administration doesn't get resolved. Conversion will almost

certainly depend on data set size. I strongly doubt that DB2 will be able

to match the more esoteric aspects of IDS without considerable work, it may

be better to wrap a DB2 wrapper around IDS than try to implement all the

Illustra APIs.



There is talk that 4GL will be given DRDA (IBM data access) at some

unspecified point in the future, as there is talk that 4GL will somehow be

integrated into IBM's EGL strategy. I'm not aware of any specifics on

either of these.



Allegations have been made that some of the onstats may be put into a

forthcoming version of DB2, but I'm not sure there will ever be a full

merge of the administration between the two. (That's just an opinion, mind,

I have no concrete reason for saying that.)



> Further to that; are there any *really* good reasons we shouldn't look

> at Oracle, Sybase, SQLServer etc. if the transition to DBNew is more

> difficult than we'd like.



We all know that it's plainly obvious that there isn't a really good reason

not to look at these if DBNew doesn't cut the mustard. Price, quality, tech

support, all the usual.



> And we don't need answers that begin "We all know that...." or "It's

> plainly obvious...." and so on.



Oh, sorry.



> Does IBM have a hidden agenda to shaft Informix users? No speculation,

> please. Those of us who are NOT close to the front line, those of us

> who just DBA or write code every day, don't know the wheres, hows or

> whys of the cynicism, but it certainly makes the confidence in our

> chosen technology plummet.



IBM doesn't have any agenda at all, from my dealings with them. The whole

reason I and several other dishonest and slovenly people are moaning is

because the chosen technology is so much better than anything else and I,

for one, do not feel that IBM is doing IDS justice, for want of a better

term. But to be fair to IBM, this just seems to be the way they work. I've

heard that someone has woken up to the fact that NUMA-Q was actually quite

spiffy technology, and now they are scrambling around trying to find the

Sequent people that they dispersed or lost after the acquisition. Or maybe

they just need them for the fight with SCO. )



> You guys haven't got a CLUE the effect all the bad-mouthing of IBM

> that goes on here is having on IT management teams - there are

> corporate decision-makers reading this group. Mine are saying "We've

> got to drop Informix like NOW before they force us up sh*t creek and

> take away our paddle". In as many words. I fear for my job. I'm

> beginning to feel I'd be better off busking.



Here are some reasons to stick with IDS: IBM will not force anyone to

migrate and has, to be fair, done *exactly* what they said they were going

to do. IDS is being developed, maintained and supported, and as far as I

can tell, will continue to be. The roadmap has been updated faithfully.

Features are being logged for 9.50. IDS tech support is still the best in

the business.



My main moan is that they gave / give too much credence to analysts who say

that if they do anything to promote IDS they will be downgraded because of

a confused database strategy. And we all know that the analysts are always

right.



If there is any agenda, it is a bit of wishful thinking that IDS users will

migrate to DB2 en masse because it's just so much better. There are some

nudges that keep IDS out of the mainstream, like undercutting the price

with DB2 and trying to force everyone onto the wonderful (and cheap!)

Pisspoor Disadvantage support scheme. As far as I can tell, IBM likes to

have one-size-fits-all processes, and I assume that the reason IDS has to

merge into IBM's way of doing things is because of this. I think this is a

major recipe for inflexible and intransigent business dealings with them,

myself, but I could be wrong. I mean, my dealings with them have been plain

sailing... #



I've not seen any evidence of anything like an active agenda to shaft

anybody. Mind you, what do I know. )



> So, how do we rebuild that confidence? All I hear here is bad-mouthing

> and little that's constructive.



I am not sure what anyone has said (in this thread anyway) that would cause

your management concern. There are still a large number of vocal users who

care passionately about Informix and still want it to take over the world.

They do not want IBM to force them up a creek and take away the paddle,

either. Your management should be rejoicing that this is the case. IBM have

not broken any promises (that I can think of off-hand, anyway), all that

the moaners are unhappy with is that they did not promise enough. It is

their right not to promise enough and it is our right not to accept that

lying down. )



--

"C'est pas parce qu'on n'a rien à dire qu'il faut fermer sa gueule"

- Coluche




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sending to informix-list

Dirk Moolman wrote:
> Man, I hope IBM is following this thread ...
Here is what I have passed on so far out of this thread:
"IBM needs to get more references of DB2 migrations out to disprove the
perception that the base is mostly leaving to the competition."

Given that the situation is rather ticklish it would be unreasonable to
excpect IBM to aggressively push those references, but they ought to be
available on the web.
I'm sure folks here can follow if I say that anything aggresive would be
seen as the final nail in the coffin of Informix by many customers.

Honestly, was there anything more in this thread once all the ranting is
cut out? I would love to have a serious discussion, offline would be
just as fine. I don't mind email.

I don't think anyone can expect IBM to publish the names of every
Informix developer working on DB2 and transfering technology to prove
it's indeed happening.
Equally there is a fine line to be walked on when to tell which features
are available if for nothing else than legal purposes.
(Not even mentioning that I know that Mark T. watches my every keystroke)

Cheers
Serge
--
Serge Rielau
DB2 SQL Compiler Development
IBM Toronto Lab