(Source http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/07/te.../07ingres.html) (Thanks
to Mr G. for the tip-off)

Spinoff Player to Compete in Open-Source Software

By STEVE LOHR
Published: November 7, 2005

A Silicon Valley private equity firm plans to announce today that it is
buying the Ingres database software from Computer Associates and setting it
up as a stand-alone open-source software company.

The move by the firm, Garnett & Helfrich Capital, is a sign that
professional investors are increasingly willing to bet there is a profitable
future for companies based on the open-source model of software development.
Open-source companies typically distribute the code free, but charge for
maintenance and support services.

The Ingres deal is unusual in that it is not a start-up firm but a
commercial spinoff. The investors and new management of Ingres Corporation,
which will have headquarters in Redwood City, Calif., has the look of an
Oracle alumni gathering.

Terry Garnett, the chairman of Ingres, is a former senior vice president of
marketing and business development at Oracle, the largest supplier of
corporate database software. David Dargo, the chief technology officer at
Ingres, was the Oracle executive in charge of running its database programs
on Linux, the popular open-source operating system.

Michael S. Rocha, an Ingres board member, is a former executive vice
president at Oracle. Another board member, Mark J. Barrenechea, the
executive vice president for technology strategy at Computer Associates, is
a former senior executive at Oracle.

Eating away at Oracle's hold on the corporate database market with a
low-cost, open-source alternative is part of the long-term plan for Ingres.
"Economically, open source is a disruptive pricing model in the software
business and it is moving up from operating systems to the database market,"
Mr. Garnett explained.

There are already open-source database products, including MySQL, PostgreSQL
and Cloudscape. So the first goal for Ingres, Mr. Garnett said, is to become
"the primary database for business in the open-source market."

That will be a challenge, analysts say. MySQL, developed in 1995, has a big
lead in the open-source database market and wide following among developers,
said Noel Yuhanna, an analyst at Forrester Research.

Ingres, by contrast, dates back to the 1970's and was picked up by Computer
Associates as part of a company it purchased in the 1990's. Ingres, Mr.
Yuhanna said, has a reputation as a solid technology but a neglected one
within Computer Associates.

Investment, independence and entrepreneurial incentives for employees, Mr.
Garnett added, can give Ingres new momentum in the marketplace. Terms of the
purchase were not disclosed, but Garnett & Helfrich specializes in making
investments of $50 million or less. Computer Associates will retain a 20
percent stake in the new company.

To succeed, Ingres must attract a following among corporate customers and
outside software programmers, who write the applications that run on
databases.

At MySQL, there seems to be little concern about competition from Ingres.
Like most traditional databases, said Marten Mickos, chief executive of
MySQL, Ingres is made to accommodate more and more features, following the
Oracle model.

MySQL, Mr. Mickos said, was created more recently and was made for Internet
applications with ease of use, reliability and speed of performance in mind.
MySQL, for example, is used behind Google's online advertising system and
for 250 applications on Yahoo.

Analysts say Ingres could do well in corporate data centers as a low-cost
database supporting the big applications, like those supplied by SAP, which
automate manufacturing, procurement, human resources and other business
operations.

For Computer Associates, the Ingres spinoff is part of the strategy of its
new chief executive, John Swainson, who came from I.B.M. less than a year
ago. Under Mr. Swainson, the company is focusing more tightly on a few
markets like systems management and security software.

Shortly before Mr. Swainson joined the company, Computer Associates declared
Ingres would become an open-source product. "But what Ingres needed was a
really focused team to run a different play," he said. "And that's what
Garnett & Helfrich are trying to do."

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"David Richard" <Richard.David@aah.co.uk> wrote in message
news:mailman.1131356882.29609.info-ingres@cariboulake.com...
> (Source http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/07/te.../07ingres.html)
(Thanks
> to Mr G. for the tip-off)
>
> Spinoff Player to Compete in Open-Source Software
[snip]

Wow. Don't know quite what to think about that yet, but Garnett & Helfrich
do have a pretty good reputation. They specialize in "salvage". They buy
good technologies from companies where they have failed to thrive and turn
them around.

Roy

Roy Hann wrote:
> "David Richard" wrote...
>>(Source http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/07/te.../07ingres.html)
>>Spinoff Player to Compete in Open-Source Software
>
> Wow. Don't know quite what to think about that yet, but Garnett & Helfrich
> do have a pretty good reputation. They specialize in "salvage". They buy
> good technologies from companies where they have failed to thrive and turn
> them around.

Opinion from early this morning seems to be that it'll be an uphill
struggle. "Strategic thinking indicates a decision is going to be
made between Orcale & SQL Server". I'd bet on the former. Any news
from elsewhere? A superficial "Google" indicates not. Shades of past
news from April at:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/04...ure_of_ingres/

Very interesting, nice to see those folks at CA haven't admitted
anything on their website yet

People have been saying that CA have been mismanaging Ingres for years,
now we'll see if it can be done any better.

My personal feeling is one of optimism. There is seamingly now a
dedicated team behind Ingres.
The fact that alot of the board have a background Oracle is no bad
thing imo.

Indeed it my go some way to winning over some of the doubters........

If this buyout does take place it will be interesting to see if any of
CA's closed source Ingres-related products are affected - OpenRoad, the
enterprise access gateways etc.

"ULR77596" <ULR77596@NOWHERE.NOT> wrote in message
news:436f3337_1@x-privat.org...
> Roy Hann wrote:
> > "David Richard" wrote...
> >>(Source http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/07/te.../07ingres.html)
> >>Spinoff Player to Compete in Open-Source Software
> >
> > Wow. Don't know quite what to think about that yet, but Garnett &
Helfrich
> > do have a pretty good reputation. They specialize in "salvage". They
buy
> > good technologies from companies where they have failed to thrive and
turn
> > them around.
>
> Opinion from early this morning seems to be that it'll be an uphill
> struggle. "Strategic thinking indicates a decision is going to be
> made between Orcale & SQL Server". I'd bet on the former.

I imagine this is being done entirely to strengthen Ingres' position in the
open source market. CA were never going to mend enough fences quickly
enough to be taken seriously by open source proponents. A quick trawl of
Google will confirm the near-unanimous sketicism and even naked hostility
found in that quarter.

If Oracle and SQL Server are on your radar you are not the target market.
The plan for some time has been to grow in the Linux open source market
where Microsoft can't play and Oracle won't.

> Any news
> from elsewhere? A superficial "Google" indicates not. Shades of past
> news from April at:
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/04...ure_of_ingres/

I think that article is simply wrong. Once CA decided to open source Ingres
it had to go. I was (rather energetically!) opposed to releasing Ingres as
open source, but now it's been done it has to be handed to someone who will
make it their core business. One option was to gift some seed money to a
bunch of enthusiasts to establish an Ingres Foundation, the other was to do
what they've done. Garnett & Hilfrich have deep pockets and a good track
record, and their objective is utterly transparent: making money.

CA has been surprisingly good for Ingres these last 10 years, but after the
first wave of excitement over the open source release there wasn't much
progress. It has become clear that a future as a kind of "managed product"
(CA-speak for "palliative care") is all Ingres had to look forward to,
denials notwithstanding. I can't think of a solitary thing CA have done
that would show they were capable of giving Ingres the best start in the
open source world other than the (admittedly crucial) first step of
releasing it. Until now.

Nope, the more I think about it, the better I like this.

Roy

Roy Hann wrote:
> "ULR77596" wrote
>>Opinion from early this morning seems to be that it'll be an uphill
>>struggle. "Strategic thinking indicates a decision is going to be
>>made between Orcale & SQL Server". I'd bet on the former.
>
> If Oracle and SQL Server are on your radar you are not the target market.

R3 was (probably) the Great Step Forward in some places. SQL
Server is in use in many places - I wonder how many firms run
*only* Ingres? Any at all? That fact (I know there are reasons
why *not* to run exclusively SQL Server!) makes SQL Server
(*and* there's a new version...) apparently attractive. What
other industrial-grade database runs on Unix? Only one, really.
It makes one wonder quite what the "target market" is - it does
not seem to be exactly the current one!


> The plan for some time has been to grow in the Linux open
> source market where Microsoft can't play and Oracle won't.

That's the issue - to grow in the open-source market. A
brand-new start uphill on a greasy slope. Might be easier
to reverse a bit, and change vehicles for a tank.


> Garnett & Hilfrich have deep pockets and a good track record,
> and their objective is utterly transparent: making money.

Presumably the same goes for CA.


> CA has been surprisingly good for Ingres these last 10 years, but after the
> first wave of excitement over the open source release there wasn't much
> progress. It has become clear that a future as a kind of "managed product"
> (CA-speak for "palliative care") is all Ingres had to look forward to,
> denials notwithstanding. I can't think of a solitary thing CA have done
> that would show they were capable of giving Ingres the best start in the
> open source world other than the (admittedly crucial) first step of
> releasing it. Until now.
>
> Nope, the more I think about it, the better I like this.

I hope it *will* be a Good Thing. Initial sentiment observed
was reported in the first paragraph, however.

<goj993@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1131363718.645180.82740@g44g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> If this buyout does take place it will be interesting to see if any of
> CA's closed source Ingres-related products are affected - OpenRoad, the
> enterprise access gateways etc.

OpenROAD and EDBC are included in the deal.

Roy

Does anyone know if Ingres Corp's Ingres r3 will still be released
under CA's TOSL?

goj993@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> If this buyout does take place it will be interesting to see if any of
> CA's closed source Ingres-related products are affected - OpenRoad, the
> enterprise access gateways etc.
>

I have spoken to Emma McGrattan today and she said that currently
OpenRoad uses a 3rd party component (MainWin) to realize the cross
platform GUI features, which makes an Open Source version less feasible
right now, but that they're looking around to see what other open source
toolkits might be used in its place. This does not mean that they're
committed to do so by any means, but it sounded like it might actually
happen at some point.

Emile