Hi Group,

I've just started learning mysql to use at work. My companies parent
company uses SQL Servers but its not something I have access to and
was hoping that our local IT dept could install mysql apache and php
for more local use. My IT dept hasn't said no as yet but in their
initial research to find out about MySQL they came up with this
article

http://www.tometasoftware.com/mysql_vs_sqlserver.asp

Although I think I can guess where the sites loyalties lay, but I
would really appreciate comment on the articles views on the
limitations of MySQL. Certainly I have doubts about it as I believe
my own MySQL admin tool provides InnoDB which the article says is not
available!

My intended usage, will be to display fairly simple forms both
completed for referral and updating and blank for completion by remote
workers, probably around 100 at a time.

DonH

On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 03:42:20 -0700, donh wrote:
> Hi Group,
>
> I've just started learning mysql to use at work. My companies parent
> company uses SQL Servers but its not something I have access to and
> was hoping that our local IT dept could install mysql apache and php
> for more local use. My IT dept hasn't said no as yet but in their
> initial research to find out about MySQL they came up with this
> article
>
> http://www.tometasoftware.com/mysql_vs_sqlserver.asp
>
> Although I think I can guess where the sites loyalties lay, but I
> would really appreciate comment on the articles views on the
> limitations of MySQL. Certainly I have doubts about it as I believe
> my own MySQL admin tool provides InnoDB which the article says is not
> available!
>
> My intended usage, will be to display fairly simple forms both
> completed for referral and updating and blank for completion by remote
> workers, probably around 100 at a time.

Read the followup article instead; their bias toward SQL Server end up
being "SQL Server offers more ways to replicate", "SQL Server offers
more ways to encrypt stuff", and "You can't just copy files to make a
good backup of MySQL".

If you're really intereested in it from the learning perspective, go
stick it on your home machine. It'll work fine there, if your home
machine is less than a decade old. If you have a task for it at work, it
kind of depends on your corporate culture. Some places are easily swayed
by "it won't require a tic on your license count" (It's free). Others
may be more reluctant to stray from "supported" products, and you'll be
stuck getting a space on an SQL Server somewhere. On the plus side, this
will get you much the same experience with learning SQL, as SQL's pretty
similar, server to server.

--
6. I will not gloat over my enemies' predicament before killing them.
--Peter Anspach's list of things to do as an Evil Overlord

Peter H. Coffin wrote:
> On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 03:42:20 -0700, donh wrote:
>> Hi Group,
>>
>> I've just started learning mysql to use at work. My companies parent
>> company uses SQL Servers but its not something I have access to and
>> was hoping that our local IT dept could install mysql apache and php
>> for more local use. My IT dept hasn't said no as yet but in their
>> initial research to find out about MySQL they came up with this
>> article
>>
>> http://www.tometasoftware.com/mysql_vs_sqlserver.asp
>>
>> Although I think I can guess where the sites loyalties lay, but I
>> would really appreciate comment on the articles views on the
>> limitations of MySQL. Certainly I have doubts about it as I believe
>> my own MySQL admin tool provides InnoDB which the article says is not
>> available!
>>
>> My intended usage, will be to display fairly simple forms both
>> completed for referral and updating and blank for completion by remote
>> workers, probably around 100 at a time.
>
> Read the followup article instead; their bias toward SQL Server end up
> being "SQL Server offers more ways to replicate", "SQL Server offers
> more ways to encrypt stuff", and "You can't just copy files to make a
> good backup of MySQL".
>
> If you're really intereested in it from the learning perspective, go
> stick it on your home machine. It'll work fine there, if your home
> machine is less than a decade old. If you have a task for it at work, it
> kind of depends on your corporate culture. Some places are easily swayed
> by "it won't require a tic on your license count" (It's free). Others
> may be more reluctant to stray from "supported" products, and you'll be
> stuck getting a space on an SQL Server somewhere. On the plus side, this
> will get you much the same experience with learning SQL, as SQL's pretty
> similar, server to server.
>

You forgot the part about the new features in 5.0 (triggers, stored
procedures, etc.) not being stable yet. These guys think everyone
produces code as bad as an unnamed company in Redmond.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

donh wrote:
> Hi Group,
>
> I've just started learning mysql to use at work. My companies parent
> company uses SQL Servers but its not something I have access to and
> was hoping that our local IT dept could install mysql apache and php
> for more local use. My IT dept hasn't said no as yet but in their
> initial research to find out about MySQL they came up with this
> article
>
> http://www.tometasoftware.com/mysql_vs_sqlserver.asp

That article is, as you'd expect from a "Microsoft Gold Certified
Partner," embarrassingly biased. The feature and compatibility
comparison sections are so dated (2004 if the copyright statement is to
be believed) they're useless. The security section somehow fails to
mention the implications of SQLServer 'features' such as xp_cmdshell.
The whole article fails to mention things that go in MySQL's favour,
such as platform support, resource requirements, open source code, ease
of interaction with other open technologies like Apache, PHP, Perl, etc.

If you want some equally biased material to throw back at them, start here:

http://www.mysql.com/why-mysql/

What you really need to do is post some idea of your requirements, and
the assembled experts will tell you if MySQL is suitable to meet them.

--
Derek Fountain on the web at http://www.derekfountain.org/

On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 08:37:57 -0400, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> Peter H. Coffin wrote:
>> Read the followup article instead; their bias toward SQL Server end up
>> being "SQL Server offers more ways to replicate", "SQL Server offers
>> more ways to encrypt stuff", and "You can't just copy files to make a
>> good backup of MySQL".

[..]

> You forgot the part about the new features in 5.0 (triggers, stored
> procedures, etc.) not being stable yet. These guys think everyone
> produces code as bad as an unnamed company in Redmond.

True, I did forget. On the other hand, I've only been doing database
stuff for a decade, so I've only had a need for stored procedures twice
(and both *could have been* handled with application programming), and
have never solved a problem with a trigger. Maybe sometime in the next
decade not having those functions "stable". (To me, "stable" means I've
not rewitten it in the past three years. "Unstable" means "I might work
on this some more", not "broken".)

--
6. I will not gloat over my enemies' predicament before killing them.
--Peter Anspach's list of things to do as an Evil Overlord

>
> What you really need to do is post some idea of your requirements, and
> the assembled experts will tell you if MySQL is suitable to meet them.
>

Derek,

Not sure I can expand much on my previous post. I think my needs are
very lightweight. My company works within the community where there
is at present a mix of paper and computer based information with paper
based forms being completed whilst with the public and then turned
into computer data later. Its very similar to having customer contact
both in your office and in their premises. With the advent of
technology we now have some laptop computers which we could use to
lookup information and add to as necessary. We just need a workable
mechanism to run it over. The largest form is a premises survey which
spans a dozen or so pages and requires some calculation. They are
currently excel spreadsheets.

Is MySQL OK for this type of thing?


Many thanks


DonH

donh wrote:
>
> Not sure I can expand much on my previous post. I think my needs are
> very lightweight. My company works within the community where there
> is at present a mix of paper and computer based information with paper
> based forms being completed whilst with the public and then turned
> into computer data later. Its very similar to having customer contact
> both in your office and in their premises. With the advent of
> technology we now have some laptop computers which we could use to
> lookup information and add to as necessary. We just need a workable
> mechanism to run it over. The largest form is a premises survey which
> spans a dozen or so pages and requires some calculation. They are
> currently excel spreadsheets.
>
> Is MySQL OK for this type of thing?

Sure it will work nicely with MySQL, with some kind of frontend that
makes it easy for the user to navigate among the data and insert new data.

I'm quite sure you project will be a lot more simple than Google and the
seem to work really well with MySQL.

PS. I would place the letters M and S in front of "SQL Server" and "SQL"
when talking about the the product from that company in US, or there
could be someone who might think you talk about things in general.


--

//Aho

On Aug 9, 10:36 am, donh <donhar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Derek,
>
> Not sure I can expand much on my previous post. I think my needs are
> very lightweight. My company works within the community where there
> is at present a mix of paper and computer based information with paper
> based forms being completed whilst with the public and then turned
> into computer data later. Its very similar to having customer contact
> both in your office and in their premises. With the advent of
> technology we now have some laptop computers which we could use to
> lookup information and add to as necessary. We just need a workable
> mechanism to run it over. The largest form is a premises survey which
> spans a dozen or so pages and requires some calculation. They are
> currently excel spreadsheets.
>
> Is MySQL OK for this type of thing?

just do it! MySQL's server is very easy to install & easy to use/
administer/backup with the gui tools (query browser + administrator).
I have it running on all of my desktop pc's for some work-related
databases I'm using by myself. It's been very reliable.

I'd also recommend installing the MySQL ODBC driver, and looking at
Shanti Rao's JSDB (www.jsdb.org) which is a fairly easy way to write
scripts to access a database via ODBC. This (or some other database-
agnostic tool that works w/ ODBC) can help decouple your database
processing from the database storage so that if you do have to migrate
your database from MySQL to SQL Server, you can use the same
processing tools.

The only thing that SQL Server might work better is integrating the
database entry into a webserver if you plan to do that in an automated
fashion. I haven't used SQL Server myself but I assume that Micro$oft
does have some level of integration between webserver + their
database. MySQL won't give you a front end for database entry (aside
from the Query Browser which is only good for raw data entry into
tables) so you'd have to write that yourself.