On May 8, 2:26*pm, The Ghost In The Machine
<ew...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, joel garry
> <joel-ga...@home.com>
> *wrote
> on Thu, 8 May 2008 13:34:30 -0700 (PDT)
> <93714048-dfc9-4b1d-b2d3-c82974a31...@j33g2000pri.googlegroups.com>:
>
> > On May 8, 10:07*am, chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> >> joel garry wrote:
> >> >I've come to the opinion that linux as sold/supported is a toy OS
> >> >running on toy hardware,
>
> >> Yeah, that's why countless corporations and research organizations use
> >> and depend on it. *Tell google that Linux is a "toy OS".
>
> >> Idiot.
>
> > Well, I may be an idiot, but what does it say that even more
> > corporations use Windows? (Too avoid confusion: I'm biased against
> > Windows and for unix. *A decade ago I was very pro-linux in cola.).
> > It says that countless corporations are wrong, to me.
>
> Define "wrong". *Both solutions work, with a cost.
> That cost has multiple units:
>
> [1] initial licensing/monetary outlay for OS and apps relevant to
> * * the initial problem
> [2] reliability/downtime
> [3] IT support staff effort (man-days per machine per year, perhaps)
> [4] IT training costs (including procedure development)
> [5] staff training costs
> [6] additional hardware and software not related to [1] in order
> * * to keep the entire system running/responsive/virus-free/sane
> [7] palatability to upper management; for example, they might not
> * * even look at [non-]Microsoft or [non-]Oracle solutions, terminating
> * * any proposals outside of their worldview with not quite extreme
> * * prejudice.

Very well said. I'm using "wrong" here in the sense that management
decisions vary from some objective truth. If many organizations have
a high variance, they may quite well all be wrong. It is also
possible for technically wrong decisions (ie, choosing an inferior
operating system and/or database with a semi-bogus app, that can still
be made to work in the business) to be managerially correct, I'm sure
we've all seen versions of that, whether or not we want to admit it.

>
> > Success in the
> > marketplace does not mean technical superiority, and often means the
> > converse.
>
> > We all ought to know the history - some smart guy wanted to know how
> > 386's worked. *Getting from there to a professional OS? *I say it is
> > arguable. *Any time someone can point out something major where
> > Windows works better, first of all...
>
> [1] Generating profit for Microsoft.
> [2] Threads, maybe.
> [3] Might be easier to sell to large corporations; Dell
> and Microsoft in particular are advertising Microsoft
> System Center.
>

And Oracle pushing software as a service. Feh.

jg
--
@home.com is bogus.
"... keynote gloriously isolated from reality..."
http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2008/0...e_bea_layoffs/

On May 8, 1:40*pm, Ivan Marsh <ivanma...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 08 May 2008 13:34:30 -0700, joel garry wrote:
> > On May 8, 10:07*am, chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> >> joel garry wrote:
> >> >I've come to the opinion that linux as sold/supported is a toy OS
> >> >running on toy hardware,
>
> >> Yeah, that's why countless corporations and research organizations use
> >> and depend on it. *Tell google that Linux is a "toy OS".
>
> >> Idiot.
>
> > A decade ago I was very pro-linux in cola.).
>
> That explains more than anyone ever need know.
>

:-)

But still, I'm not the only one who was excited about it and then
disillusioned as it bloated, I'm not the only one who thinks Intel
hardware sucks, and I'm not the only one who thinks there should be a
fork specifically for db needs. Do you not think these are legitimate
advocacy issues?

jg
--
@home.com is bogus.
http://blogs.zdnet.com/virtualization/?p=413

bdbafh <bdbafh@gmail.com> wrote:

> Go check under "Certify" on Metalink.oracle.com for what distros are
> and are not supported.

Care to provide a direct link?

> Or would you rather just spew forth an uninformed opinion?

I was responding to Ramon, who said that it would be good for Oracle
to support only one Linux distribution.

Michael

Ramon F Herrera wrote:
> "One Oracle exec said there should be only one Linux distribution —
> Red Hat — and claimed there will be no fragmentation of that code
> base.

Which is a perfectly sensible viewpoint from
a *purely Oracle* perspective, but bloody nonsense
from the viewpoint of various other vendors using
Linux in PVR's, Mobile phones, PDAs, routers,
sound studio software, all of which have different
requirments.

BugBear

joel garry wrote:

>It says that countless corporations are wrong, to me.

It's not that simple, of course.

On May 8, 7:38 pm, yf...@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca (Malcolm Dew-Jones)
wrote:
> joel garry (joel-ga...@home.com) wrote:
>
> : I think google (...snip...)
> : ... And two identical searches _still_ may not give consistent
> : results.
>
> Since when is google supposed to give consistent results?
>
> That would be a _bad_ thing.
>
> Any algorithm that can tries to reduce terabytes of data into one useful
> page of information must be making a lot of assumptions. If a result page
> doesn't change pretty frequently then that would be the sign of a terrible
> algorithm.


I am all for giving exact and consistent results every time...

If we lived in a constant, immovable, static world that is!

Just freeze the clock, and the Google results will be completely
consistent...

Last time I saw a search engine with consistent results was Altavista.
It had a piece of information gathering software (called "scooter")
which took a month to traverse the www. Google results are almost real-
time.

-RFH

On May 9, 1:58 am, Michael Schmarck <usenet-mich...@schmarck.cn>
wrote:
> bdbafh <bdb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Go check under "Certify" on Metalink.oracle.com for what distros are
> > and are not supported.
>
> Care to provide a direct link?
>

He cannot. That information is classified. :-)

Now seriously: you have to be an Oracle Metalink subscriber to see
the certification matrix.

Last time I checked Oracle supports 3 distribuitions, all of them in
the "enterprise" category.

- RHEL
- Enterprise SuSE
- Asia Linux

Oracle works directly with the folks responsible for the above
distributions.
The original one was RedHat. They both (Oracle + RH) opened a
development lab
to make sure that the software ran properly on Linux. Oracle gave
every byte
on code -as required- back to the community.

The point is that when tey discover a bug or problem, Oracle can pick
up a phone,
make 3 phone calls and yell: "fix this now!".

It turns out that they would like to make a single phone call, with
the
cost savings and wall street pressures and all.

Ergo, the RH special status.

-Ramon

On May 9, 1:58 am, Michael Schmarck <usenet-mich...@schmarck.cn>
wrote:
> bdbafh <bdb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Go check under "Certify" on Metalink.oracle.com for what distros are
> > and are not supported.
>
> Care to provide a direct link?
>

He cannot. That information is classified. :-)

Now seriously: you have to be an Oracle Metalink subscriber to see the
certification matrix.

Last time I checked, Oracle supports 3 distribuitions, all of them in
the "Enterprise" category.

- RHEL
- Enterprise SuSE
- Asia Linux

Oracle works directly with the folks responsible for the above
distributions. The original one was RedHat. They both (Oracle + RH)
opened a development lab to make sure that the software ran properly
on Linux. Oracle gave every byte of code -as required- back to the
community.

The point is that when they discover a bug or problem, Oracle can pick
up a phone, make *three* phone calls and yell: "Fix this now!".

It turns out that they would like to make a *single* phone call, with
the cost savings, wall street pressures and all.

Ergo, the RH special status.

-Ramon

On 2008-05-08, Ramon F Herrera <ramon@conexus.net> wrote:
>
> "One Oracle exec said there should be only one Linux distribution ?
> Red Hat ? and claimed there will be no fragmentation of that code
> base.
>
> In an interview with the Linux Foundation recently, Oracle?s chief
> corporate architect said Oracle Unbreakable Linux is not a product but
> a support program and he believes that there ought to be only one
> Linux distribution ? his rival?s code base."
>
> [...]
>
> http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=2393
>
> -RFH
>
They can have my Debian when they pry it from my cold dead hands.



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Christopher Mattern

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On 2008-05-08, Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:
> In comp.unix.aix chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> joel garry wrote:
>>
>>>I've come to the opinion that linux as sold/supported is a toy OS
>>>running on toy hardware,
>>
>> Yeah, that's why countless corporations and research organizations use
>> and depend on it. Tell google that Linux is a "toy OS".
>
> google does run toy hardware. I've seen more than enough of it at
> datacenters.

In that case, all I can say is that most corporations desperately
need to make trip to the toy store.


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Christopher Mattern

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