On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:29:09 -0800, Keith Keller
<kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote:
> On 2003-12-01, Morgan Landry <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>> Writing yet another paper, and I need your help again. This is for
>> people who know another language besides English.
>
> Does Californian count?

If you're doing Californian, I'll handle the Essex direlect (only the
ones that differ from proper English).

>> 1) Internet
>
> like, 'net, dude

va In'erne' (very quiet (almost silent) 't')

>> 5) monitor
>
> like, my big screen

vat fing what looks li'e a TV (quiet 'k', depending on where in Essex)

>> 7) mouse
>
> like, eww

marse ('ar' sounds like the beginning of 'arrogant')

>> 10) hard drive
>
> like, that's where I store my MP3s, dude

'ard droive, innit

Thank $DIETY I don't talk like that.


--
Simon <simon@no-dns-yet.org.uk> **** GPG: F4A23C69
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty."
- Douglas Adams

Simon wrote:
> On 1 Dec 2003 17:34:56 GMT, Joost Kremers <joostkremers@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> calculatore seems to be a calque. french ordinateur (and similarly spanish
>> ordenador) seem to be new inventions, most likely inspired by the desire
>> *not* to use an english word...
>
> I'm interested in how you thought that 'ordinateur' and 'ordenador'
> were new inventions. I thought that one may be a new invention and the
> other a calque (I have no idea which is which, though).

well, in spanish ordenar means 'to organise, put in order', so ordenador
cannot be considered a calque. i thought the french ordinateur would have a
similar origin, but going through a few on-line french dictionaries, there
doesn't seem to be a verb associated with it. so i must admit i have no
idea where it comes from.

--
Joost Kremers joostkremers@yahoo.com
since when is vi an editor? a discussion on vi belongs in
comp.tools.unusable or something... ;-)

Simon wrote:
> abridged Spanish dictionary (I usually just call her 'Anna') tells me

you give names to your dictionaries? mmm...

> that the Spanish word is similar ('ordenador').

but if you go to mexico (and perhaps other latin-american countries) you'll
find people say computador.

--
Joost Kremers joostkremers@yahoo.com
since when is vi an editor? a discussion on vi belongs in
comp.tools.unusable or something... ;-)

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On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:21:50 +0000, Simon <usenet@no-dns-yet.org.uk> wrote:
> To me, the 'screen' is the glass/plastic front, whereas 'monitor'
> includes the plastic casing. The words are interchangeable, though, so
> people mix them quite frequently.

Are we back in English now?

If so, my perspective is... a screen fits in with what is on the front
of your monitor, but also the bug screen you have on your windows to
keep bugs out of the house. I don't know if they're really considered
two different definitions, though... I can't seem to think of one
*thing* which describes them both.

Screen and monitor don't get used interchangably here. A monitor is a
seperate entity from your computer, a screen is the part of the monitor
(or part of the laptop) which is actually the display.

--
Rob | If not safe,
Email and Jabber: | one can never be free.
athlonrob at axpr dot net |
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On 1 Dec 2003 13:34:44 GMT, Morgan Landry <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> I realized that the word "computer" didn't carry over to
> other languages, most likely because the computer wasn't invented in
> the United States, IIRC.

I thought it had been... so went googling. It turns out the 'modern'
computer was invented in Germany by a man named Konrad Zuse. He was one
smart dude, but the Nazis didn't think so...

http://inventors.about.com/library/weekly/aa050298.htm

I think these dudes were the first Americans to build a computer. 15
seconds per operation.. hmmm.. wonder how long it would take to compile
the kernel on that? :-)

http://inventors.about.com/library/weekly/aa050898.htm

Their computer was the first 'all electric' one, if I read that right.
Zuse's computer was electro-mechanical...

--
Rob | If not safe,
Email and Jabber: | one can never be free.
athlonrob at axpr dot net |
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On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:39:25 -0800, AthlonRob <junkmail@axpr.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:21:50 +0000, Simon <usenet@no-dns-yet.org.uk> wrote:
>> To me, the 'screen' is the glass/plastic front, whereas 'monitor'
>> includes the plastic casing. The words are interchangeable, though, so
>> people mix them quite frequently.
>
> Are we back in English now?

We are.

> but also the bug screen you have on your windows to
> keep bugs out of the house.

I'd also call those screens, but I left that out, as it's not to do
with computers or technology.

> Screen and monitor don't get used interchangably here. A monitor is a
> seperate entity from your computer, a screen is the part of the monitor
> (or part of the laptop) which is actually the display.

Over here, they are seperate as well, as you described, but you'll
often here things like "What's on the screen/monitor?" or "Can you plug
a screen/monitor in?". It's misuse of the language, but it's so
commonly misused that it could now be part of the language.


--
Simon <simon@no-dns-yet.org.uk> **** GPG: F4A23C69
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty."
- Douglas Adams

On 1 Dec 2003 18:59:41 GMT, Joost Kremers <joostkremers@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Simon wrote:
>> abridged Spanish dictionary (I usually just call her 'Anna') tells me
>
> you give names to your dictionaries? mmm...

Anna is my sister (she studied Spanish at university).


--
Simon <simon@no-dns-yet.org.uk> **** GPG: F4A23C69
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty."
- Douglas Adams

Thomas Overgaard wrote:
> The only language i know of that don't adopt words from others is Finnish
> because its grammar prevent this from happening.

while i don't speak finnish, i very much doubt this. (i know for a fact that
the finnish word for 'king' is adopted from some (old) germanic
language. it's a very old loan, but it does indicate that finnish is not
immune to loan words.)

the argument that the grammar would prevent it from happening is rather
unlikely. people are very creative when it comes to adapting a foreign word
to their native grammar. would you believe that the egyptian arabic word
'sayyif' is actually a loan word from english? the source is 'save', which
has been marked as a transitive verb according to arabic grammar rules.

arabic has a long history of adopting foreign words and adapting them to
its own patterns. another example is falaasifa, which is the plural of
faylasuuf, which is borrowed from greek 'philosophos'.

there may be other (sociolinguistic) reasons why finnish has few loan
words, but personally i don't believe grammar prevents them.

--
Joost Kremers joostkremers@yahoo.com
since when is vi an editor? a discussion on vi belongs in
comp.tools.unusable or something... ;-)

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AthlonRob <junkmail@axpr.net> is thought to have typed the
following text on 2003-12-01:

> I thought it had been... so went googling. It turns out the 'modern'
> computer was invented in Germany by a man named Konrad Zuse. He was one
> smart dude, but the Nazis didn't think so...
>
At least we now know where Suse got their name from (probably).
>
> Their computer was the first 'all electric' one, if I read that right.
> Zuse's computer was electro-mechanical...
>
Now we know for sure, that's exactly how Suse makes your PC feel.

- --
Bartosz Oudekerk

Play Rogue, visit exotic locations, meet strange creatures
and kill them.
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Thomas Overgaard <thover@post2.tele.dk> is thought to have
typed the following text on 2003-12-01:

> The only language i know of that don't adopt words from others is Finnish
> because its grammar prevent this from happening.
>
French would be anther one, but grammar isn't the reason, my guess
would be pride(arrogance?).

- --
Bartosz Oudekerk

Play Rogue, visit exotic locations, meet strange creatures
and kill them.
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