So, to distract from the off-topic flamewars, I thought I'd pick the
brains here on my current musings of the week relating to things of a
graphical nature, heh. This is off-topic, but I would like people to think
of this in the spirit of Slack.

Given the licensing changes with XFree86, what do people think will happen
with the XWin system in future versions of Slackware? I'd imagine of any
of the distros, Slack would be most likely to chose a robust alternative,
even if it means switching to a different project that may not be as well
recognized. I'd go more in depth, but I won't because I haven't really
come to any concrete conclussions and I know this is a group of people
most likely to mention something I haven't thought of, so I'll leave this
as an open-ended musing.

I've also been mucking about with "alternative" window managers like
Fluxbox and Openbox and I'm wondering why there's such a promotion of
Gnome and KDE in Slack (by promotion I refer to their mention on the disk
set label and such). Neither seems to be of great quality. I am
dissatisfied with the bloat of Gnome and have never really liked the feel
of KDE either. I used to prefer Enlightenment but of course there's the
library issues in current Slack. I'm rambling a bit but the point of my
musing is why Gnome/KDE (other than the name recognition) instead of one
of these "alternative" managers which could be argued to be technically
superior? Or to express it differently, if we were to present Pat with a
list of "our favorite WMs", why would you include a WM on the list and
what makes you chose it over Gnome/KDE?

Boy, I feel a bit like the Church Lady with the "talk amongst yourselves"
bit, heh.

Cichlidiot <fishlover@nospam.net> wrote:

> Or to express it differently, if we were to present Pat with a
> list of "our favorite WMs", why would you include a WM on the
> list and what makes you chose it over Gnome/KDE?

Who is "we?" And what makes you think Mr. Volkerding gives a rat's
ass about what "we" want?

cordially, as always,

rm

Cichlidiot wrote:
> Given the licensing changes with XFree86, what do people think will happen
> with the XWin system in future versions of Slackware? I'd imagine of any
> of the distros, Slack would be most likely to chose a robust alternative,
> even if it means switching to a different project that may not be as well
> recognized. I'd go more in depth, but I won't because I haven't really
> come to any concrete conclussions and I know this is a group of people
> most likely to mention something I haven't thought of, so I'll leave this
> as an open-ended musing.

are there any alternatives to XFree? my guess is that they'll come round
again and change the license when they find nobody upgrades to 4.4.

> I've also been mucking about with "alternative" window managers like
> Fluxbox and Openbox and I'm wondering why there's such a promotion of
> Gnome and KDE in Slack (by promotion I refer to their mention on the disk
> set label and such).

because they are the names that everybody knows.

> superior? Or to express it differently, if we were to present Pat with a
> list of "our favorite WMs", why would you include a WM on the list and
> what makes you chose it over Gnome/KDE?

i don't think there's much point in presenting pat with a list, he already
includes several wm's in the distro. my favourite is XFce, because it looks
good, has all the functionality i need and because it's fast.

--
Joost Kremers joostkremers@yahoo.com
Selbst in die Unterwelt dringt durch Spalten Licht
EN:SiS(9)

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 09:56:05 GMT, Randy MacQuarrie <whoknows@whocares.org>
wrote:

> Cichlidiot <fishlover@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>> Or to express it differently, if we were to present Pat with a
>> list of "our favorite WMs", why would you include a WM on the
>> list and what makes you chose it over Gnome/KDE?
>
> Who is "we?" And what makes you think Mr. Volkerding gives a rat's
> ass about what "we" want?
>
> cordially, as always,
>
> rm


can someone tell me how to setup a killfile in opera's M2?

> So, to distract from the off-topic flamewars, I thought I'd pick the
> brains here on my current musings of the week relating to things of a
> graphical nature, heh. This is off-topic, but I would like people to think
> of this in the spirit of Slack.
>
> Given the licensing changes with XFree86, what do people think will happen
> with the XWin system in future versions of Slackware? I'd imagine of any
> of the distros, Slack would be most likely to chose a robust alternative,
> even if it means switching to a different project that may not be as well
> recognized. I'd go more in depth, but I won't because I haven't really
> come to any concrete conclussions and I know this is a group of people
> most likely to mention something I haven't thought of, so I'll leave this
> as an open-ended musing.

I'd have thought slack was more likely to stick with the older XF86 version
until any replacement is rock solid. Which Y certainly isn't.
>
> I've also been mucking about with "alternative" window managers like
> Fluxbox and Openbox and I'm wondering why there's such a promotion of
> Gnome and KDE in Slack (by promotion I refer to their mention on the disk
> set label and such). Neither seems to be of great quality. I am
> dissatisfied with the bloat of Gnome and have never really liked the feel
> of KDE either. I used to prefer Enlightenment but of course there's the
> library issues in current Slack. I'm rambling a bit but the point of my
> musing is why Gnome/KDE (other than the name recognition) instead of one
> of these "alternative" managers which could be argued to be technically
> superior? Or to express it differently, if we were to present Pat with a
> list of "our favorite WMs", why would you include a WM on the list and
> what makes you chose it over Gnome/KDE?

Gnome/KDE are complete desktop environments in a way that most other wms
aren't. And, as someone said, they are the big names.

Fred Emmott <pcfreak65@hotmail.com> wrote:

> can someone tell me how to setup a killfile in opera's M2?

Try RTFM. Try Google.

cordially, as always,

rm

* Cichlidiot <fishlover@nospam.net> writes:

> Given the licensing changes with XFree86, what do people think will
> happen with the XWin system in future versions of Slackware? I'd
> imagine of any of the distros, Slack would be most likely to chose
> a robust alternative, even if it means switching to a different
> project that may not be as well recognized.

OK, I've just read the new license, it's basically a slightly modified
BSD license. I would be _very_ surprised if Slackware stopped shipping
XFree86. There just isn't any reason to. There isn't anything in the
new license to warrant it.

> I've also been mucking about with "alternative" window managers
> like Fluxbox and Openbox and I'm wondering why there's such a
> promotion of Gnome and KDE in Slack (by promotion I refer to their
> mention on the disk set label and such).

Probably because they are both well known. It is quite likely that
someone new to Linux may have heard of them or seen mention of them
already. Not advertising them on a Slackware CD could possibly mean
that a would-be new Linux user will bypass Slack and move on the next
trendy distro.

> Neither seems to be of great quality. I am dissatisfied with the
> bloat of Gnome and have never really liked the feel of KDE either.

I agree. It's why I don't use either of them.

> I'm rambling a bit but the point of my musing is why Gnome/KDE (other
> than the name recognition) instead of one of these "alternative"
> managers which could be argued to be technically superior?

Understand that neither Gnome or KDE are window managers. Gnome is a
"windowing environment" and so is KDE, although KDE also includes its
own window manager (kwin). So saying that window manager XYZ is
technically superior to either Gnome or KDE is technically incorrect.

> Or to express it differently, if we were to present Pat with a
> list of "our favorite WMs", why would you include a WM on the list
> and what makes you chose it over Gnome/KDE?

There wouldn't be any need to compile such a list, Slackware already
ships with quite a number of window managers.


--
|---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: A94B3003>---|
| Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. |
| The proof of the pudding, is under the crust. |
|------------------------------<sryoungs@bigpond.net.au>---|

Steve Youngs wrote:
> OK, I've just read the new license, it's basically a slightly modified
> BSD license. I would be _very_ surprised if Slackware stopped shipping
> XFree86. There just isn't any reason to. There isn't anything in the
> new license to warrant it.

but the point is that the one clause in which it differs from the
(so-called modified) BSD license makes it incompatible with the GPL. and
that may create all sorts of licensing problems for an OS that is primarily
built up of GPL software. problems that probably cannot be foreseen due to
the complexity of the system and the unchartered teritory that this still
is from a legal point of view.

(and for the record, IMO the GPL is to blame for this incompatability, not
the new XFree license.)

--
Joost Kremers joostkremers@yahoo.com
Selbst in die Unterwelt dringt durch Spalten Licht
EN:SiS(9)

on 2004-03-06, in <Veh2c.6045$i_2.114977@news20.bellglobal.com>,
these words of wisdom from Randy MacQuarrie did appear:
> Cichlidiot <fishlover@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>> Or to express it differently, if we were to present Pat with a
>> list of "our favorite WMs", why would you include a WM on the
>> list and what makes you chose it over Gnome/KDE?
>
> Who is "we?" And what makes you think Mr. Volkerding gives a rat's
> ass about what "we" want?
>

For one thing, the fact that Slackware is simply the best distribution
there is, for those of us who can tell our elbow from a hole in the
ground.

For another, I've heard that he actually answers email. I haven't
emailed him; I'm way too intimidated. It'd be like sending an email
to Bob, albeit being Infinite, Bob probably wouldn't mind. Then again,
being Wise and Beneficient, Mr. Volkerding probably wouldn't mind
getting a short not of adulation. I know I wouldn't. But I'm not Bob,
and I'd bet a paycheck that Mr. Volkerding would cop to not being Bob.

But I just have an intuitive feeling that Mr. Volkerding gives not
only a rat's ass what "we" want, but probably goes one better than
that, like he might even bother to check in on what's going on in the
world of Slack.

Cheers!
Rich

on 2004-03-06, in <bwl2c.20786$qA2.1542414@news20.bellglobal.com>,
these words of wisdom from Randy MacQuarrie did appear:
> Fred Emmott <pcfreak65@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> can someone tell me how to setup a killfile in opera's M2?
>
> Try RTFM. Try Google.
>
> cordially, as always,
>
> rm

<chuckle>