On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, Alan Hicks wrote:
> In alt.os.linux.slackware, notbob dared to utter,
> >> come later and your evenings come sooner. By setting everyone's clock
> >> back an hour in the fall, you effectively give farmers an extra hour in
> >> the morning before everyone else gets their nine to five job started.
> >
> > That makes sense. OTOH, that's coming off DST and returning to regular
> > time. Do you realize any benefits going on DST in the Spring?
>
> No.
>
> Now, I'm pulling this out of my ass here so I could be very wrong on
> this, but as I recall in colonial days what we refer to as DST was the
> standard and what we call standard time (in the Fall) was their version
> of DST. Somewhere down the line what was "normal" was changed. I think
> it just really depends on which you think of as ordinary. Personally, I
> think of summer time as ordinary time.

bzzZZZZzzzt!

time zones did not even exist, until the transcontinental railroads
needed them to synchronize their operations. chronographs did not
even exist until what, 1720? (google). originally, most localities
kept local time by local solar time. localities along the road soon
gave up solar time and adopted railroad time, and their neighbors
followed along only as needed, until the various legislatures took
up standard time across their jurisdictions.

>
> Perhaps DST is just a good compromise between merchants and farmers?

cows cannot tell time. the farmer must get up to do his chores
regardless of what the clock says. i don't think many farmers
have anything nice to say about DST.

IIRC, DST was an invention of WWII, as an energy saving scheme.
The industrialists liked it, so it was never repealed.

The main argument i hear today in favor of DST is that wintertime
trading of morning daylight for afternoon daylight allows school
children to go home after school in daylight, thus, a safety issue.

IMHO DST is a freaking pain in the kiester and should be repealled.






--
Fire the Liars - Impeach Bush and Cheney!
Prosecute the criminals - Indict Rumsfeld and Ashcroft!
Corruption starts at the top.

William Hunt, Portland Oregon USA

chris@bubbles.townsville wrote:

<snip>
> The idea of BST linked to Europe is just to ensure the entire EU
> shifts clocks at the same time, keeping us all in step (relatively),
> which doesn't seem such a daft idea -- if there is do be daylight
> savings, then at least make sure everyone moves at the same time to
> remove any confusion!

Why? Why is there any need for the clocks to be changed at all? If
businesses wish to open earlier in the sumer then they can open at
08.00 instead of 09.00. If someone on the western edge of Europe,
wishes to do business with someone else on the eastern edge of Europe,
then they just ensure that they make their 'phone calls when their
customer is at work. There is no need for everyone else to have their
clocks set to some arbitrary time imposed on them, a time which flies
in the face of reality.
--
Two Ravens
"...hit the squirrel..."

Two Ravens wrote:

> chris@bubbles.townsville wrote:
>
> <snip>
>> The idea of BST linked to Europe is just to ensure the entire EU
>> shifts clocks at the same time, keeping us all in step (relatively),
>> which doesn't seem such a daft idea -- if there is do be daylight
>> savings, then at least make sure everyone moves at the same time to
>> remove any confusion!
>
> Why? Why is there any need for the clocks to be changed at all? If
> businesses wish to open earlier in the sumer then they can open at
> 08.00 instead of 09.00. If someone on the western edge of Europe,
> wishes to do business with someone else on the eastern edge of Europe,
> then they just ensure that they make their 'phone calls when their
> customer is at work.

And just how do you do that when you might not know which TZ the customer is
in ?

Anyway this is now seriously OT for the group. Enough.

Keith Matthews wrote:

<snip>
>> Why? Why is there any need for the clocks to be changed at all? If
>> businesses wish to open earlier in the sumer then they can open at
>> 08.00 instead of 09.00. If someone on the western edge of Europe,
>> wishes to do business with someone else on the eastern edge of
>> Europe, then they just ensure that they make their 'phone calls when
>> their customer is at work.
>
> And just how do you do that when you might not know which TZ the
> customer is in ?

One would assume that if it is ones business to trade with others in
other time zones, that one would make sure one had a grasp of the time
zones one was trading with, rather than inflicting false timing on the
population as a whole.
--
Two Ravens
"...hit the squirrel..."

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> More proof for the 'people R dum' file.
> $ echo "William Willett" >> idiots.log

<mod quote, style unix-humor>

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' ..- .:" ) ( ":. -.. ' | can only think of one way to
((,,_;'.;' UIN=66618055 ';. ';_,,)) | spell a word.
((_.YIM=Faux_Pseudo :._)) | - Andrew Jackson
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In alt.os.linux.slackware, William Hunt dared to utter,
> time zones did not even exist, until the transcontinental railroads
> needed them to synchronize their operations.

Agreed, but time zones are not a requirement for something like DST.
Before the railroad existed, Benjamin Franklin devised the idea of
Daylight savings time. Google for more info.

>> Perhaps DST is just a good compromise between merchants and farmers?
>
> cows cannot tell time. the farmer must get up to do his chores
> regardless of what the clock says. i don't think many farmers
> have anything nice to say about DST.

I'm a farmer. I like it. It works for me.

> The main argument i hear today in favor of DST is that wintertime
> trading of morning daylight for afternoon daylight allows school
> children to go home after school in daylight, thus, a safety issue.

I think we should just arm all our children and then the safety issue
goes away. (How you like them apples, Steve?) :^)

- --
It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise,
Than for a man to hear the song of fools.
Ecclesiastes 7:5
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_.-In alt.os.linux.slackware, William Hunt wrote the following -._
> time zones did not even exist, until the transcontinental railroads
> needed them to synchronize their operations.

exactly
> chronographs did not even exist until what, 1720? (google).

Sounds about right. Although crhrographs didn't mean much at the time
since not that many people had even a watch much less one that kept
perfect time.
A while back one of the brand name shopping channels had "It's About
Time" which was all about this old guy who had too much watch stock
laying around and teamed up with one of the trained sales guys to sell
his watchs on the network in the middle of the night. For a long time
this was my substatut for there being no Head Bangers Ball. They
would gladly spend 15 minutes one a one of a kind watch explaining its
history. The had things like 32 jewel cronographs and all kinds of
other works of art[0]. Once they even had a watch that had been owned
by a young man named George, Washington that is.

> originally, most localities kept local time by local solar
> time. localities along the road soon gave up solar time and adopted
> railroad time,

This happend around the 1870-1890 period.

> IMHO DST is a freaking pain in the kiester and should be repealled.

As a person who goes hunting for mushrooms after work I like it
because it means that when I get off work I still have daylight to see
my finds.

[0] these wheren't watchs they were art

- --
.-')) http://asciipr0n.com/fp ('-. | It's a damn poor mind that
' ..- .:" ) ( ":. -.. ' | can only think of one way to
((,,_;'.;' UIN=66618055 ';. ';_,,)) | spell a word.
((_.YIM=Faux_Pseudo :._)) | - Andrew Jackson
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Faux_Pseudo <Faux_Pseudo@ip68-230-192-17.rd.hr.cox.net> wrote:
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> The had things like 32 jewel cronographs and all kinds of other
> works of art[0]. Once they even had a watch that had been owned
> by a young man named George, Washington that is.

> [0] these wheren't watchs they were art

You're a philistine. You wouldn't know art if your head was dipped
in it.

BTW: this is far and away the ugliest .sig in the usenet universe.

> - --
> .-')) http://asciipr0n.com/fp ('-. | It's a damn poor mind that
> ' ..- .:" ) ( ":. -.. ' | can only think of one way to
> ((,,_;'.;' UIN=66618055 ';. ';_,,)) | spell a word.
> ((_.YIM=Faux_Pseudo :._)) | - Andrew Jackson
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> dDQw4qTIr+0am53gq49rK0o=
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cordially, as always,

rm

* Alan Hicks <alan@lizella.netWORK> writes:

> I think we should just arm all our children and then the safety
> issue goes away. (How you like them apples, Steve?) :^)

Me tinks dems apples are mighty bitta, yesiree bob.


--
|---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: A94B3003>---|
| Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. |
| The proof of the pudding, is under the crust. |
|----------------------------------<steve@youngs.au.com>---|

Old joke:

Farmer wins the lottery...

Newsman: Well, you've won a million dollars.

Farmer: Yup.

Newsman: What are you going to do with all that money?

Farmer: Don't know. Reckon I'll just keep farming 'til it's all gone.


r

(ex-Illini, tending 392 sq. ft. of chile in Colorado.)