(I started a new thread title but used my friend John's quote from the
previous one on Moz. security.)

John Culleton wrote:

>> ANC
>
> On an earlier topic, Al what is this $40 business?

I know I can get Slack for free from our local user group, or by downloading
it.... or for a few bucks from cheapbytes.com. However I like to support P.V.
and I believe that I should do that. I have no problem if a student, or young
family, or new business, or anyone on a tight budget or 'regular' income gets
Linux for free. By most accounts I would be considered 'wealthy' (but not
like Gates or Trump!) and I'm happy to help put some bread on the table of
the guy who makes the product.... and I have the money so I do. If I didn't,
I wouldn't.

I'll tell you one other thing. The 'wealthy' people I know who use Linux use
it because it's free. They could afford to hire a team of programmers to
write their OWN disto... but they download it and never pay. It's the guys I
know with 'regular' jobs (mostly state jobs) who send in the cash.

Pay for it, don't pay for it... it's not my issue. Don't think I'm making some
value judgement of any kind here. This is what I do and I don't care what
anyone else does.

Interesting (OT) issue though. It comes down to "How will open source be
supported?" The originial paradigm was the product would be free and we'd all
pay for documentation, consulting, and 'service.' Does not look like it
worked. People got the product for free and they use public forums like this
one for 'service.'

While Susie Creamcheese will never pay for service (anyone know who she is?)
as larger business entities move to open source, I think THEY will sleep
better having a corporate 'face' behind the 'product' that they can call for
help, service, etc. It might be a good time to set up a Linux-based
consulting practiice in your city and ALSO PERHAPS see if you can form a
partnership with one of the major commercial distros.... or not. Maybe if
you just build it, they will come? (Sorry, Ray!) I just don't know.... but I
hope so.

M$ 'owns' my city (Sacramento) so I don't see it happening here... unless
someone in state government gets a clue. What are the chances of Linux
'taking over" in your city? Or has it already?

ANC

Al C. wrote :

> While Susie Creamcheese will never pay for service (anyone know who she is?)

She is a Frank Zappa creation. Back in time Frank Zappa did fancy to
invent strange characters like Fillmore East and Suzy Creamcheese for to
use in he's songs.
--
Thomas O.

This area is designed to become quite warm during normal operation.

Al C. <no.spam.acanton@adams-blake.no.spam.com> wrote:
<snip>
> M$ 'owns' my city (Sacramento) so I don't see it happening here... unless
> someone in state government gets a clue. What are the chances of Linux
> 'taking over" in your city? Or has it already?

*sob* You live within a 30 mile radius of me, sigh. Anyways, there's a
very active open source community in the Delta region. I'm suprised you
are not aware of it. For Linux specific groups, there's SacLUG, LUGOD and
Roseville LUG all within a reasonable radius of Sacramento. LUGOD makes a
strong effort to be at various business and community events, where they
are usually well received. I'm sure their webpages would have more info on
any success stories as one of LUGOD's strong points is having an updated
and informative webpage. Also, Sacramento's Fry's store has the Slackware
boxed set in stock most of the time (although they label is "BSD Linux"
which I find hillarious).

As for governmental use, you have to remember red tape issues. Where it is
not an issue and people have choice, there is a marked difference. In my
lab (UCD SecLab), students are in control of their machines. Most use
Slackware Linux, although Suse and RedHat/Fedora are also popular. Only a
couple use MS as their main platform. Over in UCD CIPIC, they've made a
move from SGI Irix to Intel Linux platforms for their students and a
cluster or two (or more). Students there don't control their machines, so
that was an upper level decision (according to my former roommates who
were in that lab). Down in the basement, most of the public machines for
the UCD CS undergrads are running Linux or a variant of Unix. Up in the
main CS office, it's Macs, not MS, that dominates.

Cichlidiot wrote:

> Al C. <no.spam.acanton@adams-blake.no.spam.com> wrote:
> <snip>
>> M$ 'owns' my city (Sacramento) so I don't see it happening here... unless
>> someone in state government gets a clue. What are the chances of Linux
>> 'taking over" in your city? Or has it already?
>
> *sob* You live within a 30 mile radius of me, sigh.

That's strange. I had the exact same reaction. But you never know. I'm looking
at starting a Linux-based consultancy here (tune into SacLUG) so maybe you
want to work with us? (I'll do the selling, not the hands-on implementations.
I'm no expert in Linux... but I know where the bodies are buried in this town
after selling consulting services for 25 years!)

>Anyways, there's a
> very active open source community in the Delta region. I'm surprised you
> are not aware of it. For Linux specific groups, there's SacLUG, LUGOD and
> Roseville LUG all within a reasonable radius of Sacramento.

Um, what gave you the idea that I'm not aware of the various user groups. I've
been a member of SacLUG for the past two years. I don't go to many meetings
but I subscribe to their listserv.

LUGOD is a terrific group. I think it is larger than the Sac group. They
really get out in the community and pitch Linux. From what I understand
(correct me if I'm wrong) most of the members are academics from U. of
California at Davis (UCD.... which is by any and all standards one of the
very top institutions in the state... and IMO the nation (especially if you
like wine, animals, food, and/or computers!).

I think Linux groups could be very valuable in getting Linux 'noticed' in the
halls of government, but like you say, it's a tough sell in a venue that is
run by donations from the large special interests (did you say that? Maybe
not. Anyway, it's true.). Sorry to say, but in CA, money talks... and I'm
told that a large company in Washington as well as a large one in the Bay
Area that makes databases spend lavishly to wine, dine, and elect those who
will do their bidding.


> Also, Sacramento's Fry's store has the Slackware
> boxed set in stock most of the time (although they label is "BSD Linux"
> which I find hilarious).
>

Fry's is a great. If there is one in your area, you gotta go. I've never seen
Slack on the shelf, but I've never looked that hard. Frys has everything. I
believe that a lot of the stuff on sale at Fry's are factory seconds or
refrub stuff that is not labeled as such.... but I can't prove it. All I know
is that a lot of people I know have had problems with stuff they have bought
there. But a lot of others I know have not, so YMMV.


> As for governmental use, you have to remember red tape issues. Where it is
> not an issue and people have choice, there is a marked difference.

Well, there IS choice in government.... but the choice is not always made via
those who are in the best position to make the 'best' decision. For example,
our state is broke. Should we be thinking about cutting loose from the high
payments made to Microsoft and Oracle? Yes. But when those who make the
decisions are influenced (or who want to influence) the political players
(who dole out the money via the budget) it just does not happen. Anyone who
thinks that government is run for the interests of those who pay for it
should never come close to it. On the whole the bureaucrats who make the
major decisions are beholden to the powerfull political players who make
their budgets...and those folks get huge payments from the special
interests... and so that's why you have 'standards' for Windows, Oracle,
Novell, IBM, Sun, etc.

> In my
> lab (UCD SecLab), students are in control of their machines.

No one in the real world gives a *&^% what students do. It's unfortunate, but
true.

>Most use
> Slackware Linux, although Suse and RedHat/Fedora are also popular. Only a
> couple use MS as their main platform.

And believe me, MS knows who they are and they will get rewarded. How? How
many grants are funded by MS or some hidden affiliate at UCD?

>Over in UCD CIPIC, they've made a
> move from SGI Irix to Intel Linux platforms for their students and a
> cluster or two (or more). Students there don't control their machines, so
> that was an upper level decision (according to my former roommates who
> were in that lab).

When MS finds out, those who made the decision are going to find themselves
under scrutiny. MS does not give away money without expecting something in
return.


> Down in the basement, most of the public machines for
> the UCD CS undergrads are running Linux or a variant of Unix.

Like anyone is likely to notice?

> Up in the
> main CS office, it's Macs, not MS, that dominates.

That surprises me. Well you are talking about academia... which is a hell of a
long way from either the private sector or the major state agencies that
spend the big bucks.

Yeah, it would be nice if the winds of competition blew through the CA
governmental structure, but I don't expect to see it in my lifetime. Maybe in
yours.

ANC