On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 08:23:25 -0700, Al C. wrote:
> 'pap.' I never understood why they were so popular.... even a cult....
> compared to groups that were better and more imaginative. Compared to the
> complexity of the music and lyrics by other West coast groups like the Doors

#v+
You know that it would be untrue
You know that I would be a liar
If I were to say to you,
"Girl, we couldn't get much higher."

Come on baby, light my fire [...]
#v-

Don't get me wrong, I love the Doors, but do you call those lyrics
"complex"? Even great lyricists (I'm thinking Lennon[/McCartney],
Bernie Taupin, Paul Simon, but there are many others) are generally
writing bad poetry: IOW, without the music it's very weak.

I wouldn't classify the above as "great lyrics".

> or the Airplane, the Dead just weren't there in my opinion... but they had
> legions of fans that would follow them on tour and who followed their
> 'lifestyle' of "Hissssp, hisssssp, ahhh good sheet, man."

Unfortunately I don't have much opinion on the Dead, but I know the
deadheads are fine people. None better in my book.

> How did we all get so old, so fast?

Better than the alternative, I guess.
--
/dev/rob0 - preferred_email=i$((28*28+28))@softhome.net
or put "not-spam" or "/dev/rob0" in Subject header to reply

Al C. wrote:

> I never understood why they were so popular.... even a cult....
> compared to groups that were better and more imaginative.

The key to the Grateful Dead's success was not their musical virtuosity, but
rather their ability to create a visceral, emotional, group experience
during live performances like no other band I've ever seen. To be a part of
a stadium full of people sharing such incredible focus, purpose, and unity
of emotional experience is, to vastly understate the case, an extremely
memorable and moving experience. To fully understand what the Dead were
able to achieve, one would have had to attend a show or two or three. No
drugs required.

The Grateful Dead's astonishing financial success can also be viewed as a
testament to the feasibility of Open Source based business: unlike other
bands, the Dead allowed and even encouraged members of the audience to
record their live performances, and to freely distribute those recordings,
even allowing tapers to plug directly into the band's soundboard, for
perfect recording quality. Meanwhile, the Grateful Dead grossed over $50
million each year in concert sales alone, and another $70 million from
merchandising, over a 35+ year period. This is certainly a slap in the face
of the RIAA's anti-piracy rhetoric, if nothing else.

Jeffrey

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 11:53:28 -0500, /dev/rob0 wrote:

> On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 08:23:25 -0700, Al C. wrote:
>> 'pap.' I never understood why they were so popular.... even a cult....
>> compared to groups that were better and more imaginative. Compared to the
>> complexity of the music and lyrics by other West coast groups like the Doors
>
> #v+
> You know that it would be untrue
> You know that I would be a liar
> If I were to say to you,
> "Girl, we couldn't get much higher."
>
> Come on baby, light my fire [...]
> #v-
>
> Don't get me wrong, I love the Doors, but do you call those lyrics
> "complex"? Even great lyricists (I'm thinking Lennon[/McCartney],
> Bernie Taupin, Paul Simon, but there are many others) are generally
> writing bad poetry: IOW, without the music it's very weak.
>
> I wouldn't classify the above as "great lyrics".
>
>> or the Airplane, the Dead just weren't there in my opinion... but they had
>> legions of fans that would follow them on tour and who followed their
>> 'lifestyle' of "Hissssp, hisssssp, ahhh good sheet, man."
>
> Unfortunately I don't have much opinion on the Dead, but I know the
> deadheads are fine people. None better in my book.
>
>> How did we all get so old, so fast?
>
> Better than the alternative, I guess.

Im not a dead fan either but in response top the lyrical content of songs I
think it's very subjective....alot like the religon. If it hits you then
its cool. I agree with you on the point that the lyrics can be weak without
the music.

How about Zep's Dancing Day's from Houses:
"I saw a lion standing alone, with a tadpole in a jar"

Makes no sense to me but ive never tripped before

But when compared to something like

Rush
Subdivisions

Sprawling on the fringes of the city
In geometric order
An insulated border
In between the bright lights
And the far unlit unknown

Growing up it all seems so one-sided
Opinions all provided
The future pre-decided
Detached and subdivided
In the mass production zone
Nowhere is the dreamer or the misfit so alone

Chorus
(Subdivisions)
In the high school halls
In the shopping malls
Conform or be cast out
(Subdivisions)
In the basement bars
In the backs of cars
Be cool or be cast out
Any escape might help to smooth the unattractive truth
But the suburbs have no charms to soothe the restless dreams of youth

Drawn like moths we drift into the city
The timeless old attraction
Cruising for the action
Lit up like a firefly
Just to feel the living night

Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights.

Thats Poetry with or without music!

-nX

jspazi wrote:

> Rush
> Subdivisions

All I can say about this is that if you start posting all the great Rush
lyrics, you're in for a LOT of typing. :-)

Jeffrey

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 10:14:59 -0700, Jeffrey Froman wrote:

> jspazi wrote:
>
>> Rush
>> Subdivisions
>
> All I can say about this is that if you start posting all the great Rush
> lyrics, you're in for a LOT of typing. :-)
>
> Jeffrey

lol....Absolutely!

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In alt.os.linux.slackware, /dev/rob0 dared to utter,
> Don't get me wrong, I love the Doors, but do you call those lyrics
> "complex"? Even great lyricists (I'm thinking Lennon[/McCartney],
> Bernie Taupin, Paul Simon, but there are many others) are generally
> writing bad poetry: IOW, without the music it's very weak.

#v+
Yes I am a pirate,
200 years too late.
The cannons don't thunder,
There's nothin' to plunder,
I'm an over 40 victum of fate,
Arriving too late,
Arriving too late.

I've done a bit of smugglin',
I ran my share of grass.
I made enough money to buy Miami,
But I pissed it away so fast,
Never meant to last,
Never meant to last.
#v-

A Pirate Looks At Forty -Jimmy Buffet

Now there's some great lyrics.

#v+
Midnight in Montgomery,
Silver eagle, lonely road,
Was on my way to Mobile,
For a big New Year's Eve show.

Stopped for just a minute,
To see a friend outside of town.
With my collar up, I found his name,
And felt the wind die down.

And a drunk man in a cowboy hat,
Took me by surprise,
Wearing shiney boots, a nudie suit,
And hau-haunted eyes.

He said friend it's good to see you,
It's nice to know you care.
Then the wind picked up, and he was gone,
Or was he ever really there?
#v-

Midnight in Montgomery -Alan Jackson

There's a couple examples of good lyrics for ya.

- --
It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise,
Than for a man to hear the song of fools.
Ecclesiastes 7:5
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/dev/rob0 wrote:

> On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 08:23:25 -0700, Al C. wrote:
>> 'pap.' I never understood why they were so popular.... even a cult....
>> compared to groups that were better and more imaginative. Compared to the
>> complexity of the music and lyrics by other West coast groups like the
>> Doors
>
> #v+
> You know that it would be untrue
> You know that I would be a liar
> If I were to say to you,
> "Girl, we couldn't get much higher."
>
> Come on baby, light my fire [...]
> #v-
>
Your point is well made, but everyone on the planet knows those lyrics from
the Doors. If you had a game show and asked the contestants to recite a
snippit of a lyric from the Beatles, S&G, Airplane, Pink F. Dylan, Doors,
etc. every contestant would come up with something. I can't think of one
memorable stanza from anything the Dead has done.... but since I'm not a big
fan of them, it's understandable. I can hear the tune of Casey Jones in my
head, but the words don't come. Contrast that to Janis or Fleetwood, or
whatever.

I'm not a good judge of poetry. But I know what I remember and more often than
not, good poetry is remembered poetry, and bad poetry is forgotten.
(Remember, we're talking popular music here, not advertising.... who can
forget "Winton tastes good... like a cigarette should!")

ANC

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 10:03:22 -0700, Jeffrey Froman wrote:

> Al C. wrote:
>
>> I never understood why they were so popular.... even a cult....
>> compared to groups that were better and more imaginative.
>
> The key to the Grateful Dead's success was not their musical virtuosity, but
> rather their ability to create a visceral, emotional, group experience
> during live performances like no other band I've ever seen. To be a part of
> a stadium full of people sharing such incredible focus, purpose, and unity
> of emotional experience is, to vastly understate the case, an extremely
> memorable and moving experience. To fully understand what the Dead were
> able to achieve, one would have had to attend a show or two or three. No
> drugs required.
>

I am 43 and a veteran of perhaps 180 - 200 shows since 1976 to the summer
Jerry died. I can only say that I miss Dead shows more than anything else
in my life. The crowd and the experience tended to be lacking some in the
later years - too many MTV kiddies who just didn't "get it". Jerry's
playing tended to be less magical after his diabetic coma as well - though
a Dead show was never what you would call a "guaranteed experience".

When they were good though, all you would hear people say as you left the
venue was "Oh My God..." and "Who's got a ticket for tomorrows show?"

All my concert experiences are judged against these and very few come
close - if any. Even the parking lot scene was great.

Plus, to this day the cutest girls of any shows I've been to were at Dead
shows ;-)

"/dev/rob0" <rob0@gmx.co.uk> wrote in
newsan.2004.09.12.16.53.27.801920@gmx.co.uk:

> On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 08:23:25 -0700, Al C. wrote:
>> 'pap.' I never understood why they were so popular.... even a
>> cult.... compared to groups that were better and more imaginative.
>> Compared to the complexity of the music and lyrics by other West
>> coast groups like the Doors
>
> #v+
> You know that it would be untrue
> You know that I would be a liar
> If I were to say to you,
> "Girl, we couldn't get much higher."
>
> Come on baby, light my fire [...]
> #v-
Unfortuneatley these aren't lyrics that Jim Morrison wrote, Robbie
Krieger the guitaris wrote them. If you want to comapre lyrics look at
something that Morrison himself wrote such as The Lizard King, or The
End.

>
> Don't get me wrong, I love the Doors, but do you call those lyrics
> "complex"? Even great lyricists (I'm thinking Lennon[/McCartney],
> Bernie Taupin, Paul Simon, but there are many others) are generally
> writing bad poetry: IOW, without the music it's very weak.
I've never been a good judge of poetry, but Morrison's poetry is insane.
I have a few books of poetry of his that were published. I alos love the
doors.
>
> I wouldn't classify the above as "great lyrics".
>
>> or the Airplane, the Dead just weren't there in my opinion... but
>> they had legions of fans that would follow them on tour and who
>> followed their 'lifestyle' of "Hissssp, hisssssp, ahhh good sheet,
>> man."
>
By this statement I would come to the comclusion that you've never been
to a dead show

> Unfortunately I don't have much opinion on the Dead, but I know the
> deadheads are fine people. None better in my book.
I've meet some very cool dead heads, and just as many if not more that
were complete assholes. Kinda funny when ya think about it seeing as they
are "Peace Love and Happiness" hippies
>
>> How did we all get so old, so fast?
>
> Better than the alternative, I guess.

I've never been to a "real" Gratefull Dead (as in the dead with Jerry
Garcia) but the band continued touring after his death as "the others"
with the Further festival (further down the road) and i must say the
shows are amazing. Their music is truly out of this world. Like a poster
further down in this thread most people's perception of the dead is the
stuff that made it to the radio ala touch of grey. Their live stuff is a
million times better than anything that has made it to the radio.

ps /dev/rob0 please take no offence to my statements

On Sunday 12 September 2004 10:13 pm in alt.os.linux.slackware X wrote:

> "/dev/rob0" <rob0@gmx.co.uk> wrote in
> newsan.2004.09.12.16.53.27.801920@gmx.co.uk:
>
>> On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 08:23:25 -0700, Al C. wrote:
>>> 'pap.' I never understood why they were so popular.... even a
>>> cult.... compared to groups that were better and more imaginative.
>>> Compared to the complexity of the music and lyrics by other West
>>> coast groups like the Doors
>>
>> #v+
>> You know that it would be untrue
>> You know that I would be a liar
>> If I were to say to you,
>> "Girl, we couldn't get much higher."
>>
>> Come on baby, light my fire [...]

If you want rock - go for the Doors.
If you want poetry play Leonard Cohen.

--
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