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On 2004-09-22, Dominik L.. Borkowski <dom@vbi.vt.edu> wrote:
>
> so we both agree that for larger settings we'd use central print/spool
> servers

Sure! I'd just use a real print server. ;-)

I'd set Followup-to, but where do you followup an LPRng-CUPS religious
war?

- --keith

- --
kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/cgi-bin/fom

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Keith Keller wrote:

> I'd set Followup-to, but where do you followup an LPRng-CUPS religious
> war?

Back to 1970's/80's and almost 90's, when we didn't have cups and lprng, aka
unix printing hell days At the end of the day what matters most is that
we can actually print.

NOTE: This message was sent thru a mail2news gateway.
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pgp trash troll delete

Hicks, Alan
188 Shady Dale Dr
Lizella, GA 31052
478-935-8132

+Alan Hicks+ <alan@lizella.network> wrote:
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> In alt.os.linux.slackware, Joost Kremers dared to utter,
>> personally, i see no problem in putting off such a switch for a year or
>> two
>
> I don't either. I'm a happy user of LPRng. It works good, is easy to
> configure (thanks to apsfilter) and has no major problems with it. I
> can't see myself switching to CUPS anytime in the near future. Anything
> that uses a web browser to do its configuration is, IMO, too
> inflexible, poorly conceived, and prone to cause headaches when I wish
> to do something the least bit out of the ordinary.
>
>> after two years, when pat will have abandoned LPRng altogether, i will go
>> and compile it myself.
>
> Screw that! I'll make a package. :^)
>
>> i'd say four years from now, when development of
>> LPRng has stopped altogether, is early enough to start worrying. ;-)
>
> But is it early enough yet to start making preperations to maintain the
> LPRng code base yourself?
>
> - --
> It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise,
> Than for a man to hear the song of fools.
> Ecclesiastes 7:5
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NOTE: This message was sent thru a mail2news gateway.
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--------------------------------------------------------

pgp trash troll delete

Hicks, Alan
188 Shady Dale Dr
Lizella, GA 31052
478-935-8132

+Alan Hicks+ <alan@lizella.network> wrote:
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> In alt.os.linux.slackware, Dominik L. Borkowski dared to utter,
>> cups can be a real life saver, that's why i would recommend it in favour of
>> lprng. mostly because of the samba+cups combo, which proves to be very
>> valuable in a mixed environment [or even windows only environment].
>
> I fail to see how CUPS is a "real life saver" to an admin who knows
> what he's doing. How exactly does samba and CUPS integrate in any
> worthwhile way that LPRng and samba can't already do as well? To me,
> CUPS breaks the Unix philosophy of having small utilities that do one
> job and do it well. CUPS tries to do too much IMHO and does it all
> half-assed.
>
>> ps) to 'advocate' cups a bit more, there is also a nice way of setting up
>> pdf writing for windows machines, using samba+cups+ghost script. i wrote a
>> small tutorial on it, if anybody is interested.
>
> Hell, why not post a link to it? FYI, pdf writing in Windows is nothing
> new. I don't understand why you'd want to do something that complex
> when Adobe puts out a free "print driver" for Windows that does the same
> thing with less links in the chain.
>
> Hmmm... why don't you put "lprng pdf creation" without the quotes into
> google and tell it you're feeling lucky? LPRng can do the same thing
> with minimal configuration.
>
> Note: that page may not render properly in your browser. I had some
> difficulties using Safarii.
>
> - --
> It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise,
> Than for a man to hear the song of fools.
> Ecclesiastes 7:5
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In alt.os.linux.slackware, Dominik L.. Borkowski dared to utter,
> It's a life saver over what the printing situation was 5-10 years ago. Maybe
> you don't remember the lpd/printcap hell, or managing printers between
> different operating systems.

This isn't 5-10 years ago. All printing systems in use today have
matured.

> I don't see big&fat lprng support section in the official samba howto. Am I
> missing something?

The presence of documentation for a mostly unrelated tool in another
tool's documentation does not necessarily mean that the former is well
supported in the latter. Indeed, the documentation's presence may well
be caused by difficulty in supporting the former. By correlation, you
cannot by this fact say one product is more supported than another in a
third party application. samba was doing print sharing before there was
CUPS and LPRng was pretty much you're only option. Things worked just
as good then in that regaurd as they do now.

> i see. so having one utility to print, another one to check printer status
> is not enough?

No, but having a GUI config tool to add printers, manage jobs, shut
printers offline and crap like that does.

> a printing sytem is too much? which exact things are done half-assed?

Printers that just randomnly go offline and have to be turned back on.
Jobs that get dropped into the bit bucket without warning. This may
have improved since the last time I tried CUPS 1-2 years back.

> Sure, except this allowes an admin to deploy such solution on hundreds of
> workstations with one single entry in a netlogon script.

That's a samba thing, not a CUPS thing. It's independent of the backend
system that handles print jobs. I've done the same thing with hylafax
to pipe postscript print documents from windows computers to a process
that faxes that document out to a number it greps from the postscript
file. All that should be needed for this is Samba and Ghostscript.

>> Hmmm... why don't you put "lprng pdf creation" without the quotes into
>> google and tell it you're feeling lucky? LPRng can do the same thing
>> with minimal configuration.
>
> The irony. Go ahead and do it. The first link describes something without
> ever using lprng.

Nor does it use CUPS. To quote the article,

the technique used to print to the PDF service can be used to print
to any other printer service shared by Samba or Windows, so it is good
information to cover.

The article mentions using LPRng tools for setting up linux printing
from a client.

> If you haven't noticed yet, yes, I'm advocating cups. However, at least I
> have the decency not to smear the other product [lprng].

If you haven't noticed yet, yes, I'm advocating LPRng, and you have
been smearing LPRng.

It's a life saver over what the printing situation was 5-10 years ago.

By implication you are calling LPRng antiquated and not as capable of
handling the job of printing as CUPS. Now we can debate about this all
we want for as long as we want, but the fact is, LPRng works, it
doesn't crash, support for it is for now more readily available, and
it's code base is more mature. In comparison, CUPS has crashed on me
many times (just up and died with no helpful data written to syslog)
and buggy (randomly stops spooling jobs to the printer).

That's just ME. As always, YMMV.

- --
It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise,
Than for a man to hear the song of fools.
Ecclesiastes 7:5
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In alt.os.linux.slackware, Keith Keller dared to utter,
> I'd set Followup-to, but where do you followup an LPRng-CUPS religious
> war?

How about?

Reply-To: dmcbride@sco.com

- --
It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise,
Than for a man to hear the song of fools.
Ecclesiastes 7:5
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Dominik L.. Borkowski wrote:
> Lew Pitcher wrote:
>
>
>>The cups install went well, but I couldn't see an easy way to hand
>>configure it.
>
>
> uhmm, did you try the recommended: http://localhost:631 in your favourite
> web browser?

No.

As I said before
1) I used the KDE controlpanel printer config to set up cups on my laptop, and
2) I'm looking for a commandline/config file way to configure cups, not
another GUI/interactive method.

Thanks, anyway

- --
Lew Pitcher

Master Codewright & JOAT-in-training | GPG public key available on request
Registered Linux User #112576 (http://counter.li.org/)
Slackware - Because I know what I'm doing.
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Dominik L.. Borkowski wrote:
> Lew Pitcher wrote:
>
>
>>I'm looking for instructions to configure Cups on a system where the
>>only 'configuration' tools available are commandline tools; a web
>>browser isn't out of the question, but won't be possible in some of the
>>circumstances I forsee having to install under.
>
>
> uhmm, just because your cups server doesn't have a web browser, doesn't mean
> you can't use http://your-cups-server:631 from a client machine [of course
> cupsd.conf would have to be adjusted to allow connections from your client]

Actually, in the case I'm preparing for, it does mean that I can't use a
network connection. And, I wouldn't want to, even if I could.

Can you imagine the effort I'd have to make to configure 1500 seperate servers
spread across the North American continent? I'd much rather set up a config
file and replicate it to the various systems via rsync or a scheduled ftp
download, or use a pre-installed shell script to configure such a group of
systems.

- --
Lew Pitcher

Master Codewright & JOAT-in-training | GPG public key available on request
Registered Linux User #112576 (http://counter.li.org/)
Slackware - Because I know what I'm doing.
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Dominik L.. Borkowski wrote:
> Lew Pitcher wrote:
>
>
>>I'm looking for instructions to configure Cups on a system where the
>>only 'configuration' tools available are commandline tools; a web
>>browser isn't out of the question, but won't be possible in some of the
>>circumstances I forsee having to install under.
[snip]
> out of curiosity, what are your circumstances?

OK, now that I'm not at work, lets see if I can give you a picture of an
opportunity. I'm not going to name names, or give corporate details, and this
description is /purely hyphothetical/, so take it as you will...

Imagine, if you will, a major business with over 1500 branch offices spread
across North America. From east to west, these branch offices cover 4 1/2
hours of timezone (the easternmost branch office is 4h 30m further along in
their day than the westernmost branch office is).

Each branch office has one or more server systems running unattended, and
around 10 or so workstations running off the server (some branch offices have
more workstations on their server, some have more servers). Each server
supports a number of printers, from desktop laser printers to specialty
cut-sheet printers, and print data generated at the workstations has to be
routed to the proper printer. Both workstation and printer configuration is
predefined at server build time, and updated periodically via an rsync-like
process that runs overnight. There is no direct access to the server by
qualified administrative personell, and network access is severely restricted
(to just these automated update processes, and datacom network traffic to the
central mainframe).

Currently, these servers run OS/2, which has reached it's end-of-life, and
will be replaced with another operating system. This OS must be able to
support a unattended, automated install and config process such as I have
outlined above. If (and it's a /big/ if) Slackware were to be considered as a
target OS for these servers, it would have to be able to support, long term,
an unattended, automated install and config process for everything, including
printers. With lpr and lprng, this is possible. With CUPS, it /should/ be
possible.

So, you see, having someone sit at a web browser or some other GUI or
interactive process and manually configure each of 1500+ systems is not an
option. Hence the configfile and script process I'm looking for.


Now, none of this is even in the speculation stage, let alone under
investigation. But I want to be prepared.



- --
Lew Pitcher

Master Codewright & JOAT-in-training | GPG public key available on request
Registered Linux User #112576 (http://counter.li.org/)
Slackware - Because I know what I'm doing.
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+Alan Hicks+ <alan@lizella.network> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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>
> In alt.os.linux.slackware, Dominik L. Borkowski dared to utter,
>> cups can be a real life saver, that's why i would recommend it in favour of
>> lprng. mostly because of the samba+cups combo, which proves to be very
>> valuable in a mixed environment [or even windows only environment].
>
> I fail to see how CUPS is a "real life saver" to an admin who knows
> what he's doing. How exactly does samba and CUPS integrate in any
> worthwhile way that LPRng and samba can't already do as well? To me,
> CUPS breaks the Unix philosophy of having small utilities that do one
> job and do it well. CUPS tries to do too much IMHO and does it all
> half-assed.
>
>> ps) to 'advocate' cups a bit more, there is also a nice way of setting up
>> pdf writing for windows machines, using samba+cups+ghost script. i wrote a
>> small tutorial on it, if anybody is interested.
>
> Hell, why not post a link to it? FYI, pdf writing in Windows is nothing
> new. I don't understand why you'd want to do something that complex
> when Adobe puts out a free "print driver" for Windows that does the same
> thing with less links in the chain.
>
> Hmmm... why don't you put "lprng pdf creation" without the quotes into
> google and tell it you're feeling lucky? LPRng can do the same thing
> with minimal configuration.
>
> Note: that page may not render properly in your browser. I had some
> difficulties using Safarii.
>
> - --
> It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise,
> Than for a man to hear the song of fools.
> Ecclesiastes 7:5
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