i use FVWM as primary windows manager, there the fonts looks beautiful.
but occasionally i need to run KDE and Gnome, esspecailly i need to run
lots of KDE and Gnome apps. In KDE and Gnome, however, i found the
fonts looks ugly. the gtk-2.0/gtkrc configurated a 'bitstream vera
san' for the only 'user-font' secion. now i want to ask,

1, is there any differences between FVWM and KDE in the sense of
handling fonts. why FVWM look good whereas KDE looks ugly?

2, where can i check what fonts the FVWM used? if so, i guess i can let
KDE to use it. right?

-
narke

On Sat, 07 May 2005 18:41:12 -0700, narke wrote:

>
> 1, is there any differences between FVWM and KDE in the sense of
> handling fonts. why FVWM look good whereas KDE looks ugly?
>
> 2, where can i check what fonts the FVWM used? if so, i guess i can let
> KDE to use it. right?
>
> -
> narke

The "easy" answer can be found in /etc/X11/fvwm2/system.fvwm2rc

#
# Fonts - one for window titles, another for icons, and another for the menus
#
WindowFont -adobe-helvetica-bold-r-*-*-12*-*-*-*-*-*-*
IconFont fixed
MenuStyle black #DCDAD5 grey30 -*-tahoma-medium-r-*-*-*-80-*-*-*-*-iso8859-1
fvwm

What is above is from mine which I changed from default. The default font
is adobe helvetica. As you can see, I changed my menu font to tahoma at 8
point.

FVWM does not use antialiasing. KDE and Gnome do by default. The default
font in Gnome/KDE is Bitstream Vera wich is not pretty without
antialiasing. The easy solution would be to change the font being used
in KDE and Gnome and whatever apps you use to Helvetica.

The better (my opinion ), and of course more involved way, would be to
do the following:

If you have access to MS True Type fonts install them.
Download and recompile fretype to enable bytecode interpreting.
Turn off antialiasing everywhere.
Choose your favorite font for all apps (mine is Tahoma at 8 point)
Edit the above mentioned fvwm2.rc file to use the same font and size
- xfontsel is very helpful for this.
Also, be sure to create a .gtkrc-2.0 file in your home directory to
control the font used for GTK apps like moz and gimp etc. Add the line:
gtk-font-name = "Tahoma 8" or what ever you want.
You're good to go.

I just did this on my box to make sure I was not talking out my ass and it
works great. I don't normally use fvwm2, but now that I figured this
out I may stay here awhile - this sucker is fast. I don't like antialiased
fonts - too blurry - so most of the hard work for me was done allready. I
just needed to find the fvwm config file and change the font. You will
probably be just as happy with changing everything else to helvetica -
particularly if you do not have access to MS TT fonts.

HTH

> i use FVWM as primary windows manager, there the fonts looks beautiful.
> but occasionally i need to run KDE and Gnome, esspecailly i need to run
> lots of KDE and Gnome apps. In KDE and Gnome, however, i found the

you don't need to run the whole KDE or Gnome for getting the applications
work, just launch what you need within FVWM.

--
Powered by Linux 2.6.11.8
Dove c'e' dubbio c'e' liberta'. (Carlo Brunori)

Franklin wrote:
> On Sat, 07 May 2005 18:41:12 -0700, narke wrote:
>
> >
> > 1, is there any differences between FVWM and KDE in the sense of
> > handling fonts. why FVWM look good whereas KDE looks ugly?
> >
> > 2, where can i check what fonts the FVWM used? if so, i guess i can
let
> > KDE to use it. right?
> >
> > -
> > narke
>
> The "easy" answer can be found in /etc/X11/fvwm2/system.fvwm2rc
>
> #
> # Fonts - one for window titles, another for icons, and another for
the menus
> #
> WindowFont -adobe-helvetica-bold-r-*-*-12*-*-*-*-*-*-*
> IconFont fixed
> MenuStyle black #DCDAD5 grey30
-*-tahoma-medium-r-*-*-*-80-*-*-*-*-iso8859-1
> fvwm
>
> What is above is from mine which I changed from default. The default
font
> is adobe helvetica. As you can see, I changed my menu font to tahoma
at 8
> point.
>
> FVWM does not use antialiasing. KDE and Gnome do by default. The
default
> font in Gnome/KDE is Bitstream Vera wich is not pretty without
> antialiasing. The easy solution would be to change the font being
used
> in KDE and Gnome and whatever apps you use to Helvetica.
>
> The better (my opinion ), and of course more involved way, would
be to
> do the following:
>
> If you have access to MS True Type fonts install them.
> Download and recompile fretype to enable bytecode interpreting.

okay. i'v did it.

> Turn off antialiasing everywhere.

turn off? i heard 'enable bytecode interepting' in freetype is really
doing a turing off antialiasing. so why turn on above and turn off
here?

and, i has to make it clear what you really mean when talking about
'turn off'. did you mean go to gnome control center and kde controler
then click some options around there?

this leads to another question, which one will get dominated if
freetype and gnome/kde setting do not agree?

> Choose your favorite font for all apps (mine is Tahoma at 8 point)
> Edit the above mentioned fvwm2.rc file to use the same font and size
> - xfontsel is very helpful for this.
> Also, be sure to create a .gtkrc-2.0 file in your home directory to
> control the font used for GTK apps like moz and gimp etc. Add the
line:
> gtk-font-name = "Tahoma 8" or what ever you want.

hey, similar to above, if i set 'x font' here and set 'y font' in
gnome/kde control center, which one will get dominate? and as i knew
one can also set fonts in /etc/fonts.conf. why there are so may
duplicated information around fonts? it really drive me crazy!

> You're good to go.
>

> I just did this on my box to make sure I was not talking out my ass
and it
> works great. I don't normally use fvwm2, but now that I figured this
> out I may stay here awhile - this sucker is fast.

yes, it is really cool! enjoy it! actually, i hate kde and gnome but
have to live with gnome and kde apps.

> I don't like antialiased fonts - too blurry -

did you mean ... let my put it this way: by truning on a option in
the freetype header file and turn off antialiasing setting in
kde/gnome, you'v managed to get pretty result without artifical blurry?

> so most of the hard work for me was done allready. I
> just needed to find the fvwm config file and change the font. You
will
> probably be just as happy with changing everything else to helvetica
-
> particularly if you do not have access to MS TT fonts.

yes, i do access MS TTF :-) i knew their popular Arial is a
'accessing' to Helvetica.


>
> HTH

neutron*star wrote:
>
> you don't need to run the whole KDE or Gnome for getting the
applications
> work, just launch what you need within FVWM.

you might not get my mean, my problem is those programs get ugly font
looking in spite of running under which WM.

>
> --
> Powered by Linux 2.6.11.8
> Dove c'e' dubbio c'e' liberta'. (Carlo Brunori)

narke wrote:
> i use FVWM as primary windows manager, there the fonts looks beautiful.
> but occasionally i need to run KDE and Gnome, esspecailly i need to run
> lots of KDE and Gnome apps. In KDE and Gnome, however, i found the
> fonts looks ugly. the gtk-2.0/gtkrc configurated a 'bitstream vera
> san' for the only 'user-font' secion. now i want to ask,
>
> 1, is there any differences between FVWM and KDE in the sense of
> handling fonts. why FVWM look good whereas KDE looks ugly?
>
> 2, where can i check what fonts the FVWM used? if so, i guess i can let
> KDE to use it. right?
>
> -
> narke
>

In 10.1 you may want to:

man fontconfig
less /etc/fonts/fonts.conf
vim /etc/fonts/local.conf
----------------------------------------------------------------------
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!DOCTYPE fontconfig SYSTEM "fonts.dtd">
<!-- /etc/fonts/local.conf overrides fonts.conf -->
<fontconfig>

<!-- additional directories -->
<dir>/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi</dir>
<dir>/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/cylillic</dir>
<dir>/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/TTF</dir>

<!-- turn off antialias -->
<match target="font">
<edit name="antialias" mode="assign">
<bool>false</bool>
</edit>
</match>
</fontconfig>

nabis wrote:
> narke wrote:
> > i use FVWM as primary windows manager, there the fonts looks
beautiful.
> > but occasionally i need to run KDE and Gnome, esspecailly i need to
run
> > lots of KDE and Gnome apps. In KDE and Gnome, however, i found the
> > fonts looks ugly. the gtk-2.0/gtkrc configurated a 'bitstream vera
> > san' for the only 'user-font' secion. now i want to ask,
> >
> > 1, is there any differences between FVWM and KDE in the sense of
> > handling fonts. why FVWM look good whereas KDE looks ugly?
> >
> > 2, where can i check what fonts the FVWM used? if so, i guess i can
let
> > KDE to use it. right?
> >
> > -
> > narke
> >
>
> In 10.1 you may want to:
>
> man fontconfig
> less /etc/fonts/fonts.conf
> vim /etc/fonts/local.conf
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> <?xml version="1.0"?>
> <!DOCTYPE fontconfig SYSTEM "fonts.dtd">
> <!-- /etc/fonts/local.conf overrides fonts.conf -->
> <fontconfig>
>
> <!-- additional directories -->
> <dir>/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi</dir>
> <dir>/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/cylillic</dir>
> <dir>/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/TTF</dir>
>
> <!-- turn off antialias -->
> <match target="font">
> <edit name="antialias" mode="assign">
> <bool>false</bool>
> </edit>
> </match>
> </fontconfig>

what will happen if i do this you suggested as well as trun on the well
known freetype option (sorry i do not remember the name of that, but it
is about turning on anti-alias system widely) ?

-
narke

narke wrote:
> what will happen if i do this you suggested as well as trun on the well
> known freetype option (sorry i do not remember the name of that, but it
> is about turning on anti-alias system widely) ?
>
> -
> narke
>
I think you should read this article:
http://www.linux-mag.com/2004-02/guru_01.html

/etc/fonts/local.conf and fonts.conf are the Xft (X font rendering engine)
configuration files. Slackware 10.1 uses a new version of Xft (version 2).
I believe, right now you don't have the 75dpi fonts listed in fonts.conf,
so you shuold be missing adobe-helvetica, for example, if you run xfontsel.
Me personally, I don't like antialias (font smoothing), that's why I turned
it off in local.conf.
You may want to tweak any gtkrc files you may have too (for Gnone applets)
as for KDE, I don't remember KDE uses QT library though (qtconfig ?).

I know it's a bit sketchy, I am not on 10.1 right now.

nabis wrote:
> narke wrote:
> > what will happen if i do this you suggested as well as trun on the
well
> > known freetype option (sorry i do not remember the name of that,
but it
> > is about turning on anti-alias system widely) ?
> >
> > -
> > narke
> >
> I think you should read this article:
> http://www.linux-mag.com/2004-02/guru_01.html

after read the article, i have a question left on my mind: while there
is a tool gnome-font-properties with responsibility of setting default
fonts for gnome applications, what the /etc/gtk-2.0/gtkrc do? is there
a confilication or duplication here?

> /etc/fonts/local.conf and fonts.conf are the Xft (X font rendering
engine)
> configuration files. Slackware 10.1 uses a new version of Xft
(version 2).
> I believe, right now you don't have the 75dpi fonts listed in
fonts.conf,
> so you shuold be missing adobe-helvetica, for example, if you run
xfontsel.

my system running FVWM2, i found it explicitly use helvetic, if, as
said, Slackware 10.1 throw the font away, what do i do? does it means i
should open font.conf and do some font substitution there?

> Me personally, I don't like antialias (font smoothing), that's why I
turned
> it off in local.conf.
>

as an article pointed out, the antialiasing was controled by a compile
option of freetype2. please check the article:
http://brendan.sdf-eu.org/articles/a...sing_slack.php

i'v followed the article and turn on the option before a reinstallation
of freetype. today, when read your post, i found, as you said,
font.conf also play a role in turning on/turning off the antialiasing.
so this has me a little confusing, which one will take the dominate?
especially please consider the situation that i turn the option in the
freetype and turn off the antialising in the font.conf, what would be
the finally result? antialiasing or non-antialiasing?

-
narke


> You may want to tweak any gtkrc files you may have too (for Gnone
applets)
> as for KDE, I don't remember KDE uses QT library though (qtconfig
?).
>
> I know it's a bit sketchy, I am not on 10.1 right now.

On 10 May 2005 02:23:05 -0700, "narke" <steven@lczmsoft.com> wrote:

>
>nabis wrote:
>> narke wrote:

>> http://www.linux-mag.com/2004-02/guru_01.html
>
>after read the article, i have a question left on my mind: while there
>is a tool gnome-font-properties with responsibility of setting default
>fonts for gnome applications, what the /etc/gtk-2.0/gtkrc do? is there
>a confilication or duplication here?

I'm not sure what the file /etc/gtk-2.0/gtkrc does, BUT if you copy
it to ~/.gtkrc-2.0, it can set the default fonts and colors for gtk2
apps like Gimp and Sylpheed. You can set background, fonts for labels
and buttons, scrollbar colors, colors for all widgets, etc.

I use Gtk2 , but without gnome.


--
I'm not really a human, but I play one on earth.
http://zentara.net/japh.html