On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 23:57:55 GMT, Stanislaw Flatto <compaid@shoalhaven.net.au> wrote:

>hemant_ng@yahoo.com wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am a newbie to linux and this is the first tiuume i am installing
>> linux on a PC.
>
>Am taking this as reference.
>Do yourself a big favor, borrow/buy/steal an *old* 3-4 gig disk, attach
>it to your system, and do all your tests on it.
>Then when you feel comfortable start experimenting.

Good Idea ) Even use a boot floppy and _not_ stuff with MBR. Safe?

Cheers.

On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 18:55:15 -0500, +Alan Hicks+ wrote:


> In alt.os.linux.slackware, imotgm dared to utter,
>> If you install the new drive as /dev/hda, the master on the first ide
>> controller, and set the present "Windows" drive as either slave on the first ide
>> controller, /dev/hdb, or master on the second ide controller, /dev/hdc,
>> you can then install Slackware on /dev/hda, partitioned any way you wish,
>> and install the boot loader, either lilo or grub, in the MBR of /dev/hda.
>
> This is completely optional and to be honest, I don't recommend it as
> it uneccessarily complicates things.

To the contrary, it uncomplicates things, and removes any possibility of a
windows repair overwriting the main bootloader, whether lilo or grub, as
an added benefit.


> If LILO (LInux LOader) is
> installed to the MBR (Master Boot Record) of the first hard drive the
> BIOS finds[0] it can boot Linux or Windows regaurdless of the drives
> the operating systems are installed on. Thus you could have this
> setup:
>
> /dev/hda
> Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
> /dev/hda1 1 638 5224703 c W95 FAT32 (LBA)
> /dev/hda3 639 7476 48781372+ 5 Extended
> /dev/hda4 639 7476 48781372+ 7 HPFS/NTFS
>
> /dev/hdb
> Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
> /dev/hdb1 1 638 5224703 82 Linux swap
> /dev/hdb2 639 7476 55927235+ 83 Linux

Now, if you run setup.exe on windows, the MBR on /dev/hda is
overwritten. The noob is back here asking, for the 1000th time, "Where's
my Linux? How do I fix my MBR?"

Now try;

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/hda1 1 13 104391 83 Linux
/dev/hda2 14 115 819315 82 Linux swap
/dev/hda3 * 116 768 5245222+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda4 769 14592 111041280 f W95 Ext'd (LBA)
/dev/hda5 769 2074 10490413+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda6 2075 2466 3148708+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda7 2467 2858 3148708+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda8 2859 3250 3148708+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda9 3251 4556 10490413+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda10 4557 4948 3148708+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda11 4949 7559 20972826 83 Linux
/dev/hda12 7560 8864 10482381 83 Linux
/dev/hda13 8865 9777 7333641 83 Linux
/dev/hda14 9778 10169 3148708+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda15 10171 11476 10490413+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda16 11477 14592 25029238+ 83 Linux

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
> /dev/hdb1 1 638 5224703 c W95 FAT32 (LBA)
> /dev/hdb2 639 7476 48781372+ 5 Extended
> /dev/hdb5 639 7476 48781372+ 7 HPFS/NTFS

Lilo or grub is in The MBR of /dev/hda. LInux boots from /dev/hda3,
(Suse9.3) /dev/hda10, (Suse8.2) /dev/hda12, (Slackware9.1) and /dev/hda15
(PCLOS)

Windows boots from /dev/hdb1 by remapping it to 0x80, either in lilo.conf
or grubs menu.lst, and setting /dev.hdb1 active. The untouched Windows
bootloader, using boot.ini, gives the choice of Win98, or Win2K, just like
it has always done.

Each Linux has a stanza in lilo.conf, or menu.lst, similar to what you
gave below. I use grub, and have for years, so I'll show the grub Windows
stanza. Lilo's is similar, but differs in detail.

title Windows
root (hd1,0)
map (hd1) (hd0)
map (hd0) (hd1)
makeactive
chainloader +1

Now, you run setup.exe from Win98 and it overwrites the MBR of the drive
that C: is on, /dev/hdb. Windows does not look for /dev/hda to rewrite the
MBR, it looks for the MBR on "this drive" because it is written to
"believe" that if it's running, it must be attached to the first physical
drive and that drive, whatever it's actual connection, is the drive that
needs the MBR rewritten.

If the "Windows only" drive dies, and you remove it, your Linux, (however
many you have) still boots, because it's bootloader is on its own drive.
If the "Linux only" drive dies, removing it leaves the Windows only drive
to boot in its native fashion, because it's never been touched by anything
other than Windows own software.

To recap and make it as simple to understand as possible;

1. Remove, and replace the Windows drive with new drive on /dev/hda.

2. Partition, format, and install Linux, and install bootloader in MBR.

3. Reinstall the untouched Windows drive as /dev/hdb, or /dev/hdc/

4. Reboot to Linux, and add the Windows remap stanza to grub, or lilo.

5. Run /sbin/lilo, if that's what you chose. Do nothing if you chose grub.

Done.

Boot whichever OS you wish, with the same ease as your example, but never
worry about Windows overwriting your Linux bootloader again.

--
imotgm
"Lost? Lost? I've never been lost... Been a tad confused for a
month or two, but never lost."

Grant wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 23:57:55 GMT, Stanislaw Flatto <compaid@shoalhaven.net.au> wrote:
>
>
>>hemant_ng@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>I am a newbie to linux and this is the first tiuume i am installing
>>>linux on a PC.
>>
>>Am taking this as reference.
>>Do yourself a big favor, borrow/buy/steal an *old* 3-4 gig disk, attach
>>it to your system, and do all your tests on it.
>>Then when you feel comfortable start experimenting.
>
>
> Good Idea ) Even use a boot floppy and _not_ stuff with MBR. Safe?
>
> Cheers.

Depends....
I am too long with LILO, so for me it is very obedient app. Should have
considered OP newbiness.

"Safe?" with computers, LOL!!!

Have fun.

Stanislaw
Slack user from Ulladulla.

Thanks for your help.
I forgot to mention that the two drives are FAT32.

So I can use fdisk or fips on both. I will try fdisk first....

I plan to make partitions like this.

Split C: drive to make
1 GB for / and rest 16.5 GB for win98.

Split D: drive as follows:
8 GB Win2k
250 MB for Linux Swap Partition
2 GB for /home
6 GB for /usr
2GB for /opt

Comments are welcome.

Hemant_ng wrote:

>
> So I can use fdisk or fips on both. I will try fdisk first....
>
If I where you I would go and get SystemRescueCd from here:
<URL: http://www.sysresccd.org/>

The SystemRescueCd is a bootable Linux CD with a lot of system tools like
parted and QtParted, both are tools that can resize partitions without
damaging the data.

> 2 GB for /home
> 6 GB for /usr
> 2GB for /opt
>
I would make that:
3 GB for /usr
1 GB for /opt
7 GB for /home
--
Thomas O.

This area is designed to become quite warm during normal operation.

Thanks for the tip aobut the rescue CD. I will attempt partitioning
only after making one. Well, once the calbe modem starts working agian
....

I have completed taking backup of my computer, though.

I plan to make bootdisks for win98 and win2k but am not aware of the
procedure, syntax etc.

Also, I need to backup my existing MBR for my 98 and win2k booting. Can
anyone tell me how to do this ?

On 24 Sep 2005 02:43:30 -0700, "Hemant_ng" <hemant_ng@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Also, I need to backup my existing MBR for my 98 and win2k booting. Can
>anyone tell me how to do this ?

dd if=/dev/hda bs=512 count=1 of=mbr-backup

Assuming you boot from /dev/hda

Grant.

Hemant_ng wrote:

>
> I plan to make bootdisks for win98 and win2k but am not aware of the
> procedure, syntax etc.
>
You can get all types of bootdisks here:
<URL: http://www.bootdisk.com/>
--
Thomas O.

This area is designed to become quite warm during normal operation.

Hi,
I downloaded the system rescue CD and have taken a backup of my data. I
made the boot disks for

Window98 and Win2k (Thanks to Thomas Overgaard for the link to
www.bootdisk.com).

But when i tested the bootdisks, the Win98 one did not work. I think
that the problem is as follows:
Since Win98 was installed on C: and Win2k was installed later, the
Win98 bootloader was
replaced/overwritten by the Win2k bootloader which offers the choice of
loading Win98 or win2k at boot time.

So, I have to take a backup of the win2k bootloader settings. I have
taken a MBR Backup on floppy disk as told by Grant [using dd
if=/dev/hda bs=512 count=1 of=mbr-backup ], but I cannot confirm
whether it is working or not. Booting with this disk gives a error
(something like "Invalid disk").

Can anyone tell me how to Check the MBR Backup.

Also, I want to reinstall Win98 on my C: drive. Will that affect my D:
drive Win2k install ?

By the way, I have used Knoppix live CD successfully. It is a great
riskfree way of learning Linux

I am booting with Knoppix LIVE CD and running Knoppix from a copy of
knoppix Live CD on C: drive (/dev/hda1).

I used the following commands for Knoppix at the boot prompt.

For the first time
boot: knoppix tohd=/dev/hda1... this copies LIVE CD to HD Partition.

Next time while booting. boot: knoppix fromhd=/dev/hda1 command picks
up the copy of Knoppix saved previously and I run the s/w off the HDD.
It is faster than LIVE CD on CDROM and event faster than Win98.

Is something like this possible with Slackware ?

On 10 Oct 2005 05:01:54 -0700, "Hemant_ng" <hemant_ng@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Hi,
>I downloaded the system rescue CD and have taken a backup of my data. I
>made the boot disks for
>
>Window98 and Win2k (Thanks to Thomas Overgaard for the link to
>www.bootdisk.com).
>
>But when i tested the bootdisks, the Win98 one did not work. I think
>that the problem is as follows:
>Since Win98 was installed on C: and Win2k was installed later, the
>Win98 bootloader was
>replaced/overwritten by the Win2k bootloader which offers the choice of
>loading Win98 or win2k at boot time.

Yes, that makes sense, I have one machine (toshiba laptop) boots
win98, win2k, slackware and FreeBSD. Slackware gets boot control,
I'm sure I've posted this detail before... Rather than post here,
check http://bugsplatter.mine.nu/slack-10.2/laptop/ later for more
info. Another stalled 'backburner' documentation project ;-)


>So, I have to take a backup of the win2k bootloader settings. I have
>taken a MBR Backup on floppy disk as told by Grant [using dd
>if=/dev/hda bs=512 count=1 of=mbr-backup ], but I cannot confirm
>whether it is working or not. Booting with this disk gives a error
>(something like "Invalid disk").

Rather than fuss too much about MBR backups, you should know how to
install new MBR:

Win98/win2k/WinXP
Get bootpart from http://www.winimage.com/bootpart.htm as it can restore,
play with MBRs on the 'dark side' (dos command prompt). This was my tool
of choice prior to linux bootable rescue cdroms ... never got the hand of
Tom's amazing little boot floppy :-)

Linux
chroot + lilo from whatever rescue CDROM, Slackware install,

>Also, I want to reinstall Win98 on my C: drive. Will that affect my D:
>drive Win2k install ?

Yes, it will wipe the MBR, don't worry, "BOOTPART WINNT BOOT:C:" will
fix it I recommend reading / following tips on there website, this
has been around for years.
>
>By the way, I have used Knoppix live CD successfully. It is a great
>riskfree way of learning Linux

Surely, but it aint slack


>Next time while booting. boot: knoppix fromhd=/dev/hda1 command picks
>up the copy of Knoppix saved previously and I run the s/w off the HDD.
>It is faster than LIVE CD on CDROM and event faster than Win98.
>
>Is something like this possible with Slackware ?

I'd prefer a proper install of slackware over some derivative work,
I also prefer Slackware's install environment over Knoppix for setup,
check hardware -- it gives me the localnet connection to perform data
recovery or backup, as well as a workable environment for chroot, fix
fstab, lilo.conf, lilo and stuff.

Important thing is to give it a go, and watch out for user data.

Enjoy!

Grant.