Hi Karl,
On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:29:21 +1000, a <a@a> wrote:
>
>Lol fair enough, I think this is the human interaction Usenet became
>famous for? Forgive me I'm new to newsgroups.. anyways I'd still be
>curious if any non-trolling newsreaders had any thoughts on the power
>shortage being an influence on the start of HD death.

Of course, weak power is first suspect. When the obvious answers fail,
time to _really_ think about creating test cases. I had a nasty one a
couple months back, data corruption due to NIC, SATA HDD, disk
controller or what?

MD5 not as useful to me as diffing good/bad data (not that I knew which
was which) and a pattern emerged: bit 0x20 was failing to be a one,
very occasionally.

Define a test: the linux-kernel compile / diff took too long, plus I
needed a test that was OS independent, linux or windows. What worked
was copy/compare a .iso image file. Sometimes would get a single byte
error in one of five tries.

linux: cp, cmp
winxp: copy, fc /b

Eliminate the suspects: Swapped power supply, OS, disk --> leaving
memory, the shop swapped memory stick for new one, problem gone.

This box would pass memtest86, and was built new in April.

In hindsight the clues were occasional kernel source tree corruption,
or a very rare segfault. I use 'cp -al' a lot which makes for a fragile
file system and was blaming 'finger trouble' when source trees went off.



However, the fault you describe reminds me of last time I used ext3
and getting a lockup with nothing in the logs.

What kernel you using? Some subtle filesystem interaction bugs were
ironed out in recent months, I assume ext3 is now reliable again.


Power supplies do wear out, the ripple current takes its toll on the
main filter capacitors, as does overloading or running at full load.
Open the thing and check if the big filter caps have a domed top,
they supposed to be flat. If the power supply is too small, poor
load regulation will cause things to go wrong, but when I've had
that it was an obvious failure after things warmed up, and removing
a drive resolved the issue.

Cheers,
Grant.

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_.-In alt.os.linux.slackware, a wrote the following -._
> Lol fair enough, I think this is the human interaction Usenet became
> famous for? Forgive me I'm new to newsgroups.. anyways I'd still be
> curious if any non-trolling newsreaders had any thoughts on the power
> shortage being an influence on the start of HD death.

Alan Conner, Bruce, whatever-he-is-calling-himself-today is one of the
usenets more famed kooks. Someone even made a special place for him:
http://www.pearlgates.net/nanae/kooks/alanconnor.shtml

But of course Al C hasn't read that page. Because Al C doesn't read
what trolls post.

- --
.-')) fauxascii.com ('-. | It's a damn poor mind that
' ..- .:" ) ( ":. -.. ' | can only think of one way to
((,,_;'.;' UIN=66618055 ';. ';_,,)) | spell a word.
((_.YIM=Faux_Pseudo :._)) | - Andrew Jackson
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_.-In alt.os.linux.slackware, Keith Keller wrote the following -._
> On 2005-09-21, WIdgeteye <None@none.none> wrote:
>>
>> I'm just writing this to get some others' thoughts on this situation.
>> Your thoughts and suggestions are all welcome.
>
> Could there be environmental issues that are plaguing your hardware?
> Maybe it's particularly hot, dusty, or some other factor that's causing
> you more problems than normal?

Now there is a thought. I know that hard drives 'breath'. When
looking at a hard drive closely I note the little air filter on them
to let air in/out as they cool down and heat up. What kind of
environmental effect could fit through the best filters ever
made... Hmm... Could my smoking have been causing me to burn through
hard drives?

My harddrives don't normally last more than 18 months so when the OP
says he has to replace his every two years I consider that the cost of
doing business. The longest lasting harddrive I have ever had was the
one that came from a system that I got from AOLS member Jake Lai. It
has lasted about a year now and I know from it's 6.5 gig size that it
has been around long before I got it.

But tobacco smoke is fine enough to get in through that filter. Now I
don't think it has much chance of collecting on the platers because
they are probably protected by a pressure zone created from their
spinning 99.9999 of their life time if you have an "always on" system.
But what about the head?

Any hardware experts out there?

- --
.-')) fauxascii.com ('-. | It's a damn poor mind that
' ..- .:" ) ( ":. -.. ' | can only think of one way to
((,,_;'.;' UIN=66618055 ';. ';_,,)) | spell a word.
((_.YIM=Faux_Pseudo :._)) | - Andrew Jackson
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WIdgeteye wrote:
[ snip certain data op and filesystem, HD's failing ]
> I'm just writing this to get some others' thoughts on this situation.
> Your thoughts and suggestions are all welcome.

I archive, write to cd/dvd, ftp across 100 speed LAN (then delete from
disk) (then do it all again) the size of files you speak, proximity 600
megs to 1.5 gig sometimes even a bit larger say near 2, and rarely I do
near 3 gig that is one file.

Not had a drive fail due to this sort of useage. But, while doing it
on a Debian Sid box not long ago, did have mucho extra problems with
fsck having to make corrections, fix for inodes, etc. Did it enough
that I quit using the box (afraid to lose data). Didn't lose any data
but I decided to not beg for trouble. (I think ext3 on that box). (the
box is temporarily abandoned and on the back burner -- until more round
tuits come along)

Then did nearly the same om Slack 10.1 with reiser file sys. No probs.

These are scsi drives, both are 18 GB. One on Deb box is Adaptec U2w
controller with U2W (80 the speed) IBM HD. One on Slack is Ultra 160
Adaptec controller and Fujitsu U 160 HD.

I think I've not ever done this sort of useage (size of files etc.) on
IDE HD's. Only on scsi. So I've nothing else to compare it to here.
Just scsi.

Oh, wait a minute. My ftp server has two HD. It boots scsi 18 U160.
But HD # 2 is an 80 GB IBM/Hitachi IDE drive. (eek it's a Windows 2000
box running WarFTP -- pls forgive me I haven't learned ftp server on
Linux enough yet -- but soon) my ftp is only on my LAN 192.168.0.xxx
NOT on the internet.

Same data op on that 80 IDE and no probs. (likely ready for that Win
defrag though by now)

My experience is that this type of useage "works" everything and may
but may not increase in some way the maintenance interval.

My intent is to get any box that I do this on so that it's with 2 HD
and do the "work"ing on disk number two.

I haven't seen the purity of your building's electrical power
mentioned/brought up yet. The wall plug flicker (just needs one little
quick teency flicker) during writing (mucho mucho the most critical
during L O N G disk writes) -- --> disasterous. UPS likely greater
need of as per the longer time length of the disk write.

I once experienced catastrophic result -- permanently said adios to
that pack of data -- a significant power flicker happened right during
the middle of a long write of several or more gigs and was not on a
UPS. (during a heavy winter storm at a friend's house).

I made them purchase a UPS. We do not have that problem any longer.
data was the only loss (perhaps also resurection to the file sys --
it's been long time, don't remember all the details). No hardware
damage from it.

Those pesky power plugs, the plug that plugs onto the Hard Drive --
most of the time they work. But I think they need improved. They are
subject to corrosion which can result in voltage drop (not good, not at
all) especially in humid area near ocean, etc.

And, I've had them the plug work loose, to the point of failure. But
not ever MAKE/cause a HD to break. Yes, can't read from disk once the
plug loosed. Works again when put the plug back onto HD.

Magnets/magnetic field in proximity, anyone? Supposedly plays havoc
files perhaps file sys. But should not cause hardware to break though.

Alan.

Faux_Pseudo <Faux.Pseudo@gmail.com> trolled:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1

> _.-In alt.os.linux.slackware, a wrote the following -._
> > Lol fair enough, I think this is the human interaction Usenet
> > became famous for? Forgive me I'm new to newsgroups.. anyways
> > I'd still be curious if any non-trolling newsreaders had any
> > thoughts on the power shortage being an influence on the start
> > of HD death.

> Alan Conner, Bruce, whatever-he-is-calling-himself-today is one of
> the usenets more famed kooks. Someone even made a special place
> for him: http://www.pearlgates.net/nanae/kooks/alanconnor.shtml

> But of course Al C hasn't read that page. Because Al C doesn't
> read what trolls post.

[Usenet's ugliest .sig, deleted]

Can you please explain why somebody who signs his name as
"Faux_Pseudo" needs to use pgp?

Like, isn't that really, really, fucking stupid? Nothing Connor or
Canton have ever done is anywhere nearly as stupid as using pgp to
verify a name like "Faux_Pseudo."

cordially, as always,

rm

Faux_Pseudo <Faux.Pseudo@gmail.com> trolled:

Could you please stop posting, sir? Your .sig is as wild, noisy and
ugly as your thought process. You are not wanted.

Please stop posting to this group. Find a group which celebrates
butt-ugly sigs. Find a group which understands why anyone would use
pgp to verify a name like "Faux_Pseudo."

But please, please, please, bugger off on out of here. You postings
don't make any sense and your presentation is far and away the
ugliest on usenet.

You are not wanted.

cordially, as always,

rm

Faux_Pseudo wrote:

> But of course Al C hasn't read that page. Because Al C doesn't read
> what trolls post.
>

Not true. You're a troll and I read your crap!!

Of course I'm familiar with Alan Connor. Isn't everyone? Only an idiot would
claim that I'm Connor. But then again, there are a lot of idiots on Usenet.
And on the whole I've rather 'be' Conner than Faux_Pseudo, that's for damn
sure!

I don't know who Alan Connor really is (assuming he uses a fake name) and he
and I are NOT the same person (and even a Usenet newbie can easily
determine that.) However I've enjoyed most of his postings I've seen over
the years (I've only seen him on this group as of recent.)

He's a good writer and he 'hits' on a lot of interesting topics. His
'talent' (perhaps like mine) is probably wasted on a.o.l.s. since so many
subscribers here are 'love it or leave it', close-minded types who believe
that everyone who does not espouse the Slackware party-line is a..... guess
what.... here it comes.... yes, you got it.... a TROLL.

I can't think of one distro-based newsgroup that is as inbred and
close-minded as Slackware. The BSD groups are a LITTLE BIT similar, but
definitely not in the a.o.l.s. league. I'm told the Apple groups a somewhat
like this one but I don't know for sure. The Debian groups used to have a
reputation for being of "one mind" but with so many NEW people coming to
Debian via the derivatives it is no longer true (IMO.) How many new
Slackware users are there each month? How many new Ubuntu users are there
each month?

When I say that Slackware is the best distro 1995 has to offer, it goes for
the community as well. Damn few open minds here. Slackware is not a distro,
it's a cult. Alan Connor refuses to be part of your cult so some of you
guys do all you can to discredit him, attack him, and insult him (or her?)
as you do to me.

Why, I don't know. It does not work. I'm still here bugging the hell out of
you. And Connor has been around far, far longer than I have.

If some of you would just learn to 'get along' with those whom you disagree
with I think you would be a lot happier. Then again, perhaps Slackware is
like the USMC... a place where guys who really LIKE to fight can put their
energy to 'good' use.

Anyway, just learn how to 'killfile' on a string in a header (for me, use
'adams-blake') and maybe that will help keep your blood pressure down a
bit.

Al C.

On 2005-09-22, Alan Connor <i3x9mdw@j9n35c.invalid> wrote:
> On alt.os.linux.slackware, in <pan.2005.09.21.16.14.38.379109@none.none>, "WIdgeteye" wrote:
><body not downloaded>
>
> WIdgeteye
> Results 1 - 40 of 40 in the last year
> 1 alt.music.christian.rock
> 29 alt.os.linux.slackware
> 4 comp.os.linux.misc
> 5 comp.windows.x
> 1 news.newusers.questions
>
> I see. This is one of your slack group aliases.
>
> You post way more than 40 times a _day_ under various
> aliases.
>
> Shit by any other name smells just as bad.
>
> Not interested in your observations, troll.


??????

You lost me here. Why would you say I'm trolling??
I've been coming on AOLS for years, but I must admit
it's generally only when I need help. What's the problem??

Thanks

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 00:03:27 +0000, Alan Connor wrote:


> I see. This is one of your slack group aliases.
>
> You post way more than 40 times a _day_ under various
> aliases.
>
> Shit by any other name smells just as bad.
>
> Not interested in your observations, troll.
>
> Trolls don't know anything, because they never quit
> running their mouths long enough to learn anything.
>
> They usually don't even really read the posts that they are
> responding to.
>
> Thanks for wearing a gag when you are in my newsreader.
>
> (Not that you have any choice in the matter.)


Actually I think you need some anger management classes.
You really have a mental problem, the more I think about it.
I can see no reason why you would attack someone you don't
even know in this manner. You're really a strange person.
Did your mother have any children that lived?

Thanks

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:04:24 +0000, Realto Margarino wrote:

> Faux_Pseudo <Faux.Pseudo@gmail.com> trolled:
>
> Could you please stop posting, sir? Your .sig is as wild, noisy and
> ugly as your thought process. You are not wanted.
>
> Please stop posting to this group. Find a group which celebrates
> butt-ugly sigs. Find a group which understands why anyone would use
> pgp to verify a name like "Faux_Pseudo."
>
> But please, please, please, bugger off on out of here. You postings
> don't make any sense and your presentation is far and away the
> ugliest on usenet.
>
> You are not wanted.
>
> cordially, as always,
>
> rm

I like his sig, it's all swirly like clouds on a windy day.
I think we need more like that one. You're just jealous cause yours
isn't as pretty as his.

Cordially.

The multi Alias posting guy.