+Alan Hicks+ wrote:

> ... Emacs ain't UNIX, and it ain't in any stock UNIX machine, ...

DEC/OSF Unix shipped with a (non-GNU?) version of Emacs. You could opt
to not install it if you needed the drive space, but it was there. I
think later versions of Ultrix might have had it included as well.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sylvain Robitaille syl@alcor.concordia.ca

Systems and Network analyst Concordia University
Instructional & Information Technology Montreal, Quebec, Canada
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Realto Margarino <rm@youasked.org> writes:

> Glyn Millington <wistanswick@linuxmail.org> trolled:
>> +Alan Hicks+ <alan@lizella.netWORK> writes:
>
> Hicks is a cowardly little troll. Ignore him. Because if you
> don't, it's likely that we will ignore you.

A lot hangs on the nature of the "we" here.


Is this the royal or split-personality "we". Are you saying that if I
fail to ignore Alan, then you (in all your choice singularity) will
ignore me? That sounds like good news:-

A. I get to exchange harmless nonsense with Alan - well my part
is mostly nonsense at least.
B. You will ignore me if I do.

A win - win scenario if ever I saw one.

Or is this RM as spokesman for the teeming hordes who read a.o.l.s. and
to whose thoughts and feelings you are somehow mystically attuned? So
"we" means in effect "Keep responding to Hicks and you will find yourself
ignored by all the other right-minded citizens here." If that is what
you mean then the evidence so far - and I admit that I have not been
posting here for as long as you, but I've been around for at least three
years - is against you.


> cordially, as always,

Well that's all very well, but I think that if I keep responding to you
it may be that the sensitive souls round here will have me in their
kill-file anyway, as a troll-feeder.

Its a dilemma :-)


Glyn
--
RTFM http://www.tldp.org/index.html
GAFC http://slackbook.org/ The Official Source :-)
STFW http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...inux.slackware
JFGI http://jfgi.us/

Le Fri, 29 Sep 2006 07:34:50 +1000, Steve Youngs a écrit*:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> NotDashEscaped: You need GnuPG to verify this message
>
> * +Alan Hicks+ <+Alan> writes:
>
> > On 2006-09-24, Steve Youngs <steve@youngs.au.com> wrote:
> >> >> what about some good ole infighting about emac vs. vi? yeah ...
> >>
> >> > What's the point, the battle's won - XEmacs rules :-)
> >>
> >> ahem... SXEmacs :-)
>
> > I'd like to see you guys try to run those one some of the computer
> > I operate.
>
> They'd have to be very unusual setups before emacs wouldn't run on
> them.

I think the point was not so much about "would it run" but in
the quite usual situation (at least for an admin sent out to tease the
fire after the usual local PHBs nephews playing ITmeen said it'd be
easy to tame the rampant fire by spreading acetate moss and
anhydride all over the place, not that unusual sitcom and I'd tell
stories a many if I wasn't the least conscious that this was quite a
long parenthesis :-) ...

So, in the usual situation,
you're thrust in the white room with
a pass badge hammered thru your best `quicksober' T-shirt and a circle
of PHBs (at least wannabees) around to make the magic humming while
you discover that not only its not your usual AZERTY keyb, but it's not
exactly your second (or first, localize yourself while reading :-)
habit as a QWERTY, but it happens the guy that put the sys online
some eons ago was a QWERTZ in the process of learning how to use
a DVORAK typing proficiency part-time.

When you eventually happen to get in a correct login suite, after the
second circle of nephew would understand that you needed a real login and
password to have chance, then that it had to be a real already existing
login and
(laaaaater)
that the password was not to be a dummy one
(they're still, and at the same time, believing that you could log in
with a flick of the wrist with no real password *and* that they really
*shouldn't* give out the password, wonders of the world are not always
qualified by their cups size ratio to IQ, that'd list them to infinite
power extra human species (uh, not that false)).

So, now, you're surprinzingly still alive,
though a few of the PHBs
were dragged to E.R. for suffocation (a dozen cigars per hour in a
2*3yards room without a window is certainly a selective factor).

Then you happen to have the login working and you type your first
commands (through faith to your fingers more than deciphering the
ashtray they put in place of the initial keyb) then you take a lesson
quite fast.

There's no shell more recent than csh.
no GNU tool but this is the least surprise
the LOCALES are a bit messy (and I put that in a politikallee
korekkt way, this is a wormwide read group afterall)
typing 'vi' gives you the right to see a bunch of color flashes
and offset chars that'll mess the console at speed of light then
leave you naked and freezing on a prompt made by the acid Queen.

You're a pro and didn't even raise a brow to this usual quiver, so
you know that one of the nephews thought it was coooool and lolololol
to have vi as an alias to vim x-moded only.

Final stanza, you type 'elvis' and it lives ;-)
Well, there are some cases when you'll have to do it all in 'ed'
an/or 'cat >[>], but that wont ever be a [S[X]]Emacs )

> > And when the Solaris box you were called in to fix has a full
> > filesystem, and you have to edit your config files
>
> If it was my system or one of my customers' I would have installed emacs
> on it long before the filesystem filled up. :-)

I see, so you'd know what was filling the filesys ;P)

>
> > listened to +Alan Hicks+ and learned how to use vi
>
> Who said we didn't know how to use it?

Not me said the small little mouse ...

> > After all, GNU is Gnu's Not Unix, and Emacs is GNU, so by
> > definition, Emacs ain't UNIX, and it ain't in any stock UNIX
> > machine, but some clone of vi is, garaunteed.
>
> Good thing (S)XEmacs ain't GNU, and I have the ability to install the
> software I want to use. :-)

That's the best idea around about it :-)
"
Give us today our daily 'cat'
and liber us from PHBs
"

On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 01:22:06 +0200, Loki Harfagr <loki@DarkDesign.free.fr> wrote:

> There's no shell more recent than csh.

March 1997 on IRIX on an Indy, this student wants to send an email, types
elm, gets to compose email and the thing is busted -- nothing more than a
stupid line of tildes down the left of the screen and typing doesn't work

So the student complains to unix sys-admin, elm's busted on an Indy, with
a perfectly straight face sys-admin suggests that I try pine instead )

It wasn't long after I realised I'd met vi, lurking . . . within elm.

Grant.
--
http://bugsplatter.mine.nu/

On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:47:01 +0000 (UTC), Sylvain Robitaille <syl@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote:

>+Alan Hicks+ wrote:
>
>> ... Emacs ain't UNIX, and it ain't in any stock UNIX machine, ...
>
>DEC/OSF Unix shipped with a (non-GNU?) version of Emacs. You could opt
>to not install it if you needed the drive space, but it was there. I
>think later versions of Ultrix might have had it included as well.

Who cares? Did the DEC/OSF Unix ship with vi? That's what matters

Whatever happened to your 385XD laptop and the new memory?

Grant.
--
http://bugsplatter.mine.nu/

Grant wrote:

>>> ... Emacs ain't UNIX, and it ain't in any stock UNIX machine, ...
>> DEC/OSF Unix shipped with a (non-GNU?) version of Emacs. ...
>
> Who cares? Did the DEC/OSF Unix ship with vi? ...

Of course it did. My point was simply to show that Alan's
generalization was incorrect: you _could_ have Emacs in a stock
(commercial) Unix machine.

> Whatever happened to your 385XD laptop and the new memory?

Exactly what was supposed to happen: the unit now has 96MB of memory (I
added 64MB to the original 32) and a new battery that works very well.
I've measured as much as 3.5 hours of service on a full charge, to the
time the unit starts complaining it wants to be charged again; it would
have gone on longer before shutting off due to loss of power. It
actually qualifies now as a usable system, except I would prefer to have
more disk space ... :-)

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sylvain Robitaille syl@alcor.concordia.ca

Systems and Network analyst Concordia University
Instructional & Information Technology Montreal, Quebec, Canada
----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 02:09:40 +0000 (UTC), Sylvain Robitaille <syl@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote:

>Grant wrote:
....
>> Whatever happened to your 385XD laptop and the new memory?
>... It
>actually qualifies now as a usable system, except I would prefer to have
>more disk space ... :-)

CompactFlash? If you have a spare pcmcia, can mount /usr on it ro?
I did that before 820MB HDD started squealing at me.

Grant.
--
http://bugsplatter.mine.nu/

Grant wrote:

>> ... It actually qualifies now as a usable system, except I would
>> prefer to have more disk space ... :-)
>
> CompactFlash? If you have a spare pcmcia, can mount /usr on it ro?

It's definitely a possibility, but I haven't really given the problem
much thought yet.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sylvain Robitaille syl@alcor.concordia.ca

Systems and Network analyst Concordia University
Instructional & Information Technology Montreal, Quebec, Canada
----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 04:00:39 +0000 (UTC), Sylvain Robitaille <syl@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote:

>Grant wrote:
>
>>> ... It actually qualifies now as a usable system, except I would
>>> prefer to have more disk space ... :-)
>>
>> CompactFlash? If you have a spare pcmcia, can mount /usr on it ro?
>
>It's definitely a possibility, but I haven't really given the problem
>much thought yet.

Well, I been there, wrote about it here A noatime ro mounted CF seems
a reliable idea to me, silly 365X doesn't do DMA on hard disks, so the CF
PIO0 (polled single byte I/O) operation not much different speed than HDD.

Some CF adapters don't have the DMA line connected, while newer CF devices
can use DMA now, but the adapters are cheap and the CF looks like PCMCIA
hard drive, no special driver required.

Grant.
--
http://bugsplatter.mine.nu/

Sylvain Robitaille <syl@alcor.concordia.ca> trolled:
> +Alan Hicks+ wrote:

> > ... Emacs ain't UNIX, and it ain't in any stock UNIX machine,
> > ...

> DEC/OSF Unix shipped with a (non-GNU?) version of Emacs. You
> could opt to not install it if you needed the drive space, but it
> was there. I think later versions of Ultrix might have had it
> included as well.

Nobody would ever let Hicks near a real unix.

cordially, as always,

rm