http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl.../02/17/0219225

Seems like Pat is ahead of the curve.

Adonis

Adonis Vargas wrote:
> http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl.../02/17/0219225
>
> Seems like Pat is ahead of the curve.
>

Linus had already in the past highly criticized the lack of
configuration in Gnome while the Gnome project seems to think that too
much configuration option confuse more than help the average user.
Unfortunately, Linus seems to use offensive words against Gnome and I
personally do not believe it is a good idea (for example
http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usabi.../msg00021.html ).

I think that Pat has dropped Gnome because it was too difficult to
compile. Contrarily to Linus, he has never attacked Gnome (or any other
project) in offensive word saying simply that Gnome would best be
maintained by third parties.

Now Linus is the principal author of the kernel, he is not responsible
for the entire system which is made of several components. What is good
is having choice. Personally, I do not like these "desktop" at all and I
use a simple window manager (Icewm).

Olive

On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 11:14:51 +0100, Olive wrote:

> Adonis Vargas wrote:
>> http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl.../02/17/0219225
>>
>> Seems like Pat is ahead of the curve.
>>
snip...
>
> I think that Pat has dropped Gnome because it was too difficult to
> compile. Contrarily to Linus, he has never attacked Gnome (or any other
> project) in offensive word saying simply that Gnome would best be
> maintained by third parties.
>
Thank God for Garnome! Having tried to build Gnome from scratch, I
understand why it was dropped. The beauty of Garnome, or for that matter,
Konstruct, is that you can have a Gnome system but completely independent
of any libraries on your existing rig. All the dependencies are taken care
of with regards only for Gnome. When building a system-based Gnome,
reverse dependencies have to be accounted for.

snip...

> I do not like these "desktop" at all and I
> use a simple window manager (Icewm).

They are getting bloated, aren't they? I use E16 + ROX.
--
Peter

On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 11:00:21 +0000, Peter wrote:

> Thank God for Garnome!

This stuff gets "religious" in a hurry, so I'll help it along. I've just
never liked Gnome from my first experiences with it. I prefer to tinker.
Maybe I'll give Garnome a try.

On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 09:59:41 -0500, mr.b wrote:

> On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 11:00:21 +0000, Peter wrote:
>
>> Thank God for Garnome!
>
> This stuff gets "religious" in a hurry, so I'll help it along. I've just
> never liked Gnome from my first experiences with it. I prefer to tinker.
> Maybe I'll give Garnome a try.

Yeah. I only use it because of Evolution, which is the mail program I
like. Unfortunately, over the versions, Evo has gone from a standalone
gtk2 app to a gnome-intertwined one. I have no choice but to selectively
compile gnome in order to use it. Like any addict, I've tried to switch
(claws-mail, in particular), but other than kmail, nothing had all the
features. Not ready to commit to another email client that is beholden to
a desktop. But Garnome allows me to just compile the subset of gnome apps
and libraries that evo absolutely requires.

Good luck.

You may also wish to look at jhbuild, but I prefer garnome. JM2C

--
Peter

Olive <oesser@noemail.org> wrote:
>
> Linus had already in the past highly criticized the lack of
> configuration in Gnome while the Gnome project seems to think that too
> much configuration option confuse more than help the average user.
> Unfortunately, Linus seems to use offensive words against Gnome and I
> personally do not believe it is a good idea (for example
> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usabi.../msg00021.html ).

I'm not sure what is offensive about what he said. He doesn't agree with
their design philosophy, and makes that quite clear.

> Now Linus is the principal author of the kernel, he is not responsible
> for the entire system which is made of several components. What is good
> is having choice. Personally, I do not like these "desktop" at all and I

Sure, and Linus has been a very strong leader. There are always disagreements
going on within the community. Linus should not be expected to tip-toe
around or play politician when he feels strongly about something.

For example, many members of the FSF and kernel developers are gung ho about
GPLv3. Linus does not like it, and believes it will harm Linux. Just
recently, some kernel developers put a patch in that would change the
warning message you get when you load a non open source module (say, the
Nvida one). Now it would warn the user that it would be deactivated, or
unsupported, or something like that, within a year. Linux was very blunt
in saying he would not pollute his tree with such a patch to further
the political goals of others.

There was also a lot of conflict during the 2.3.x (or maybe it was 2.5.x)
VM development. Linux was rejecting a lot of code. Many people were
worried he would piss people off and lose developers - and bring about
the end of Linux (we are always hearing about the end of Linux coming,
just like the end of Slackware). Instead Linux stuck by his beliefs and
Linux is better for it.

- Kurt

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On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 16:32:48 GMT, Peter wrote:
>
> Yeah. I only use it because of Evolution, which is the mail program I
> like. Unfortunately, over the versions, Evo has gone from a standalone
> gtk2 app to a gnome-intertwined one. I have no choice but to selectively
> compile gnome in order to use it. Like any addict, I've tried to switch
> (claws-mail, in particular), but other than kmail, nothing had all the
> features. Not ready to commit to another email client that is beholden to
> a desktop.

I'm curious what features does Evolution have that claws-mail lacks?

The Claws-mail developers are very responsive. I've seen feature
requests be implemented the same day they were requested. It
couldn't hurt to request a missing feature.

Brad


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On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 14:45:59 -0600, Bradley Reed wrote:

snip.....
>
> I'm curious what features does Evolution have that claws-mail lacks?
>
> The Claws-mail developers are very responsive. I've seen feature
> requests be implemented the same day they were requested. It
> couldn't hurt to request a missing feature.
>
> Brad
>
>
Well, first understand, I am a pretty basic user. No Exchange, no webcal,
single-user. So, my needs are straightforward.

What I found missing in claws that I am used to in evo is:

1) address book. Not just a list of email contacts, but a usable database
that can store or export names, addresses, phone #s, etc. I tried creating
custom fields in the claws import facility, but those fields were not really
usable other than for storage.
2) I could not alter the display of names. Everything was first name sorted,
so if I wanted to email someone, I had to select it based on either a nick
or a first name. With evo, I could sort my contact list in any way.
3) Calendar. I tried the vcalendar module, but its really just a means for
setting up appointments or replying to meeting requests via email. I need a
calendar where I could note other things.
4) Task list.

I suppose, I have come to depend on evo for more than just a mailer. Claws
mail is an excellent email program, but it lacks the integrated features I
like. kmail probably would come close to what I want, but why switch if what
you're using works.

Although, this gnome thing is really annoying. I mean, almost 50 modules
have to compile just to get evolution!

Claws may be lightweight, but I would need several additional programs to
have the features I like now (unless I am misunderstanding its
capabilities). And, those programs may not integrate into claws.

I keep looking at it from time to time.

--
Peter

Adonis Vargas <adonis@removethisearthlink.net> wrote:
> http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl.../02/17/0219225
>
> Seems like Pat is ahead of the curve.

No. It appears that Volkerding and Torvolds have different reasons
for not liking gnome.

There is no "curve" and this is not another opportunity to slavishly
worship "Pat."

cordially, as always,

rm

On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 14:45:59 -0600, Bradley Reed wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 16:32:48 GMT, Peter wrote:
>>
>> Yeah. I only use it because of Evolution, which is the mail program I
>> like. Unfortunately, over the versions, Evo has gone from a standalone
>> gtk2 app to a gnome-intertwined one. I have no choice but to selectively
>> compile gnome in order to use it. Like any addict, I've tried to switch
>> (claws-mail, in particular), but other than kmail, nothing had all the
>> features. Not ready to commit to another email client that is beholden
>> to a desktop.
>
> I'm curious what features does Evolution have that claws-mail lacks?
>
> The Claws-mail developers are very responsive. I've seen feature requests
> be implemented the same day they were requested. It couldn't hurt to
> request a missing feature.
>
> Brad
>
>
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> D+E4FzQJO33f5dQ0DqEbyWE=
> =/Gry
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Evolution?
Excellent. Gnome is great.

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